Is the vote kick system improperly implemented for how it's actually being used?

[Miste]

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not doing abusing anything in this situation.
In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and doing his thing. Just kick him for harassment.

Uh...you might want to think a bit about what you just said.

If forcing someone to do something they don't want to is harassment then the tank in my example could claim the other 3 are harassing him that they are trying to get him to change his playstyle.

So under your definition of harassment being "forcing people to do something they don't want to" then both sides are harassing each other....then both sides are guilty in this case.

It would be hypocritical to claim harassment on one side while the other is harassing as well.

Also I very much disagree that just playing a video game how you personally want to is harassment. Like...harassment is a pretty strong negative word, just because a DPS for example is playing very poorly and I don't like how he is playing I am not gonna claim they are harassing me just for playing how they want. That would be ridiculous.

Or an option "Uncooperative" can be added.

This is the same as now. Any and all play style differences will just use "Uncooperative".

This changes nothing at all.


You have to look at the big picture of the reason why SE allows "different playstyle" kicks. It is because they cannot be biased and tell the community what is "acceptable" play styles and what isn't.

We as a community have to deal with our own disputes when the dispute is entirely centered on play style because SE cannot take sides.

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

This argument just defeats itself, because you are forgetting that people who don't want to be kicked for possible play style clash also have the option to only queue with friends or join/make a PF group to avoid people kicking them for their play style.

So what point were you making exactly?

You didn't answer my question to you either so I'll ask again. How do you propose they fix the vote kick system in a logical and fair way?

[Rokke]

They can't kick the tank because it would be a differing play styles issue so if they do they'll all get punished for abusing the system. What now? Vote abandon and force everyone to requeue and wait even longer due to one person who didn't want to compromise in group content? Doesn't seem fair.

The funniest part about the all or nothing vote is that could lead to more vote abandons or healers/tanks "disconnecting", which would make dps queues even worse lol

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

If 1 person wants to only hit blizzard thats their prerogative. If the party isnt on board with that and doesn't want them there, starting a vote is theirs.The party shouldn't be punished and HAVE to carry dead weight. If they are ok with it, then they can drag them along. If they aren't, they can hope the next person queue spits up is better.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I personally think kicking for different playstyle should not be allowed. It is getting abused a lot. SE should look into their policy and update it.

The issue becomes the moment SE takes a stance, one side will actively rebel. We have seen countless examples, i.e. how few Warriors there were until the stance penalty was removed. If you remove the option to kick, raiders will be even less likely to queue because why bother? Now some might argue it won't make a difference or that raiders don't make up a majority populous, but consider the trickle down effect. If more competent players stop queuing, this leaves good non-raiders stuck with what's left. They may be inclined to join PFs, thus queuing less often themselves. SE doesn't take a position on things like playstyle, healer DPS and etc precisely because they know the backlash isn't worthwhile.

[Ayer2015]

Vote kick should be limited to offline, afk, and harassment. Our GMs including 'different play styles' which isn't even listed as an option just causes problems.

[Miste]

Vote kick should be limited to offline, afk, and harassment. Our GMs including 'different play styles' which isn't even listed as an option just causes problems.

Do you have any suggestions on how they would fix it though?

Because they are going to get reports from people who got kicked because they refused to compromise to the majority.

If one person wants to RP /walk through the dungeon and stop every few mins taking screenshots of things and the 3 others don't and they kick the person walking then....they should get punished for kicking for differing play styles?

What about a tank who is trying to speed run and the 3 others don't want to? If they kick the tank for differing play styles.... do they get punished for kicking him?

[Laerune]

This is why SE went with the current different playstyle option. Miste has a point, how would SE fix this?

I tanked a dungeon yesterday and we had this BLM who was either roleplaying or trolling as a Thunder Mage. He refused to cast any other skill, then Thunder (single damage) and Thunder (AoE damage) spells. The BLM refused to work with the rest of the group and decided that his sub = he can do whatever he wants without any consequences. We kicked him out and moved on.

If playerstyle differences were not a valid option, then 3 players would have been punished for 1 players playstyle. I understand that playstyle differences is not ideal, but its the best option that we have right now.

[Ayer2015]

Do you have any suggestions on how they would fix it though?

Because they are going to get reports from people who got kicked because they refused to compromise to the majority.

If one person wants to RP /walk through the dungeon and stop every few mins taking screenshots of things and the 3 others don't and they kick the person walking then....they should get punished for kicking for differing play styles?

What about a tank who is trying to speed run and the 3 others don't want to? If they kick the tank for differing play styles.... do they get punished for kicking him?

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

[Kerii]

I have only been kicked from a group one time, that I can remember, in the four years I've played. However, I have kicked a lot of people, and I've left a lot of groups in lieu of drama. Honestly, you are likely the problem if it happens often enough that you notice. However, I do think the dialogue box should be changed to reflect the intent of the vote kick system more clearly.

Vote dismiss is intended to help parties resolve disputes without GM interaction.
Select reason for dismissal:
Offline
Playstyle Differences

For the second option I think there should be a text entry box to include a brief description of your reason. "Player is uncooperative", "Player is being abusive", "Player is preventing progress on the objective". Then that message should be added to the chatlog when the vote passes.

[Player Name] has been dismissed for [Reason Given]

I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it's better than what we have now. Players shouldn't have to hunt down old forum posts from GMs to clarify how this feature should work.

Addendum:
I was referring to this GM post specifically. It is also the basis for my suggestion.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2358628

[SuperZay]

In 80% cases it's used not for these few legal reasons listed so no, it's not working as intended. Also 'injustified voteckick' warning is misleading because reports actually do nothing.

[Miste]

Also 'injustified voteckick' warning is misleading because reports actually do nothing.

How do you know reporting does nothing? If there is some kind of action taken SE won't tell you because they don't release that kind of information.