Quote Originally Posted by era1Ne View Post
The thread is powered by people jumping to different topics all the time. One is talking about the goal of an class in theory, others are talking about inexpierienced healers and then someone comes in with "but... but... the pure healers. They are not ok, right?" (which 97% of people agree with, including me). Add silly arguments to that and then you have an thread, which will never end. This argument is bad, because we discussed what the main job of an class is and this ofc should be done correctly.
Your job is to clear the content. Same as everyone else there. Trying to get away with doing as little as possible makes you no better than that guy in a group project who shows up on the first and last day and is conveniently always busy whenever there's heavy lifting to do.



So an tank who uses one button and does flash, is worse than an tank who does the aggro combo, because the second does dmg aswell, while generate aggro. There is no downside to it by game design.
So an healer who uses one button and does cure, is worse than an healer who does the DPS skills, because the second does dmg aswell, while keeping the party alive. There is no downside to it by game design.

See what I did there?

An healer who does no aoe or instant heals and only uses vita to heal a group up, maybe letting people die is worse than an healer using his kit efficiently and keeping everyone alive
A healer who is idle for 75% of the instance is not using her kit efficiently, for any known definition of "efficient". If you're doing that little, it frankly doesn't matter if you use AoE healing or not. Healing efficiency means absolutely nothing if you're going to spend the gained time twiddling your thumbs.

An dd not using aoe skills, when there are 10000000 mobs is worse, because with one button he does much, much less dmg then using the one gcd doing something efficiently and use aoe skills
He doesn't like that part of his kit and doesn't want to do it. Maybe he only wants to use Riposte, so he can be a "Pure Fencer" (Rapiers are pretty dang cool, after all). People who ignore large swaths of their kit because they don't feel like it are all the same no matter what role they are, and your attempt to carve out a special exception for pure healers is shamelessly transparent. Besides, he's still doing more damage than the healer ignoring Holy in favor of doing absolutely nothing.


TL;DR There is an clear difference between doing your main job and doing your main task very unefficiently
Your main job is to do your part to clear the content. By standing around doing nothing, you are failing at that job.

You can't compare classes like that, because they are different by game design.
By class design, all the healers have DPS skills, enough MP to use them, and time when there is no healing to be done. By refusing to do that, you're actively ignoring he class design that actually exists in favor of some mythical "pure healer" class that doesn't exist.

If you would create this thread in the tank forum, you wouldn't create an thread saying "dear tanks, who don't dps" (there is no downside to use aggro combo, compared to flash in boss fights), but an thread "dear tanks, who are in tank stance all the time". (Would love to see how this goes...) The latter has an downside, since you risk to be not able to do your main task at hand, while playing more efficiently, since tanking out of tank stance is an dmg gain. Healers are still, despite the removal of cleric stance in an similar situations and risk letting people die, depending on how much you are willing to risk/push it, in order to do dmg.
There is absolutely no risk whatsoever in doing damage on a fight like O2N. None. The damage that's coming is telegraphed so far in advance that you could stop and do nothing for 2 GCDs to get ready for it and still have over half the fight to DPS freely. So you're back to a double standard where someone else should do more than the minimum because "there's no downside", but healers are special snowflakes that should do as little as possible because reasons.

Also, leaving tank stance increases the workload on the healers, which is clearly a downside. Good tanks know when that tradeoff is a gain for the group.