Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Tridus]

I never said this would be ok. But hey, read what you want.

I know you didn't, that's why I was asking. Because now I can ask this:

Why is it okay for a healer to do nothing for 75% of the time, but not okay for a tank to do nothing for 75% of the time? If someone can actually give a straight answer to why this hypocrisy is considered defensible, they could end the thread.

[Kabooa]

I know you didn't, that's why I was asking. Because now I can ask this:

Why is it okay for a healer to do nothing for 75% of the time, but not okay for a tank to do nothing for 75% of the time? If someone can actually give a straight answer to why this hypocrisy is considered defensible, they could end the thread.

Because one keeps us alive and the other will almost certainly lose hate?

I dunno man. If I'm not getting beat on and I'm not dying to unavoidable damage, I'm pretty happy with that in a Duty Finder.

[Miste]

the other will almost certainly lose hate?

Nah, I've actually tested this on PLD against people with better weapons and gear than me too (10 item levels higher). You can spam Flash only and keep hate quite easily, and I also did that experiment in HW...now in SB the hate generated by tank stuff has been increased so it has gotten even easier.

[Kabooa]

Fair. I think a boss is only the scenario in an expert where you might probably lose threat in a flash 1 every 4 GCDs and nothing else set up.

[Miste]

Fair. I think a boss is only the scenario in an expert where you might probably lose threat in a flash 1 every 4 GCDs and nothing else set up.

Yeah agree with you here, bosses you -might- not be able to only use Flash, but with some of the DPS you come across in DF doing very low potential....its safe to say you might even be able to do it on bosses sometimes as well and I think the main idea is that the potential is still there to do exactly 0 DPS on a PLD if you decided to and it is one of the sticking points about that "It's not my role so I shouldn't have to" argument :/

[Kabooa]

Yeah agree with you here, bosses you -might- not be able to only use Flash, but with some of the DPS you come across in DF doing very low potential....its safe to say you might even be able to do it on bosses sometimes as well and I think the main idea is that the potential is still there to do exactly 0 DPS on a PLD if you decided to and it is one of the sticking points about that "It's not my role so I shouldn't have to" argument :/

The other devils-advocate standpoint I could offer is about interactivity. The tank is expected to interact with the boss, so why not at least hit the weaponskills too.

A healer is expected to keep the party alive. Sure, that only requires a modicum of attention and effort in small pulls and normal bosses, but the derpsers are alive and the turnks are alive so everyone's happy.

Granted, that's pretty boring. FF14, ignoring mechanics, is a pretty game to watch when you hit buttons, so hit buttons.

[Tridus]

Because one keeps us alive and the other will almost certainly lose hate?

I dunno man. If I'm not getting beat on and I'm not dying to unavoidable damage, I'm pretty happy with that in a Duty Finder.

That's never a bad day in DF, yep. But there's still a difference in expectation. I actually can hold hate with just 6 flashes on most trash and some bosses. Might even throw in an auto attack if I'm generous. I'm doing exactly the same amount of work as a "pure healer", so I'll call myself a "pure tank". It's mostly to point out the absurdity of this at the end of the day, because no tank would ever actually do that and nobody on the tank forums would go "yeah, it's your right to do the absolute minimum you can possibly get away with!" They'd go "no, here's how you can improve."

A Red Mage who puts a drinking bird on the 1 key so it spams Jolt is doing the role, but that's hardly something anyone is going to go "yep that's cool."

I just hold experienced healers to the same standard. If you can do something to help the group, that is better than doing nothing. That's not a punishing goal for an experienced healer, and someone who goes "nah, I don't feel like it" is no better than a tank who does the same thing.

[MoroMurasaki]

It's crazy this is still going.


What is actually being argued at this point? Does anyone actually believe that experienced healers shouldn't be expected to contribute some DPS?

For a while it got derailed into a discussion about whether or not it was okay to offer advice/suggestions to others in DF! How can that even be debated? Are you people such delicate snowflakes that someone suggesting you throw some rocks on WHM is going to traumatize you? The fact that Tridus had to bring up an all flash PLD to try to get this point across is completely insane.

This isn't really even a debate as one side has literally no valid points. Saying healers shouldn't be expected to DPS in this game is the same as defending a cashier in a store that puts your milk on top of your bread. Sure they performed their basic role of letting you pay for something but the way they did it is detrimental and time consuming because now you need to go get new bread. Should that cashier get screamed at and called names? No, but someone should tell them what they are doing wrong to keep them from making the same mistake again.

Byt it's okay, rather than responding to this just throw another tantrum about elitists and the evils of having any expectations whatsoever for your fellow players.

[Seoulstar]

snip.

This thread is powered by a energizer battery.

[Kabooa]

Grocery.

The more accurate example is that the milk and bread are placed in two separate bags (thus requiring more bags despite the job getting done)

The bagger / cashier's basic task is "process goods and bag them". If they're ruining the goods, then they aren't performing the bagging role.