SMN 4.06 Changes

[EllieShadeflare]

As one of my friends who has actually been researching the potency of Summoner has found out, Summoner's only real problem is its disgustingly high skill floor vs any other DPS... but it's more than capable of hitting the same marks as other DPS. In fact, as it currently stands, it can hit a solid 7k parse. To compare, this makes it the fourth most powerful DPS, only under Samurai, Black Mage and Monk, from strongest to weakest.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=100

At best, Summoner just needs QoL changes to lower its skill floor, and make it more accessible... and perhaps actually get some better research done.

[dinnertime]

Yes, SMN's damage was never the problem and I don't see most people assume it was after people realised that the "nerfs" SMN got in the SB changes were actually to balance things.

The problem is the skill disparity and how the gameplay is very clunky, poorly thought out and the job being the most punishing if you die.
Meanwhile it also has a bunch of button bloat so their goal to minimize the skill disparity and reduce button bloat with jobs failed miserably with SMN.

[Elkanah]

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I must be very misinformed then, as smn with the amount of overmelds I've seen on different smn's in Aether data center and checking with others on stats and numbers doing savage content, and how the person is playing it, always puts SMN at #4, and I'm always around #1/2 spot on RDM myself in dps. I will take back my statement if the issue isn't so much the smn class, but the user friendliness of the skills surrounding it. I've also seen a hefty amount of people ask the smn to change classes to something else entirely, and playing the job even at 60, felt odd anymore with many of the skills in HW having vanished to simplify it (as it says it's supposed to).

[Aletin]

...always puts SMN at #4, and I'm always around #1/2 spot on RDM myself in dps. I will take back my statement if the issue isn't so much the smn class, but the user friendliness of the skills surrounding it.

The issue with SMN is the user friendliness, the rotation to achieve top dps is super tight and punishing upon death. Even using aetherflow wrong punishes you immensely.

Using [Forbidden Program Name] does display SMN DPS lower than it actually is, as [Forbidden Program Name] doesn't calculate Dreadwyrm Trance properly. So SMNs are usually have about 10% higher DPS than displayed.

[Savagelf]

the problem is summoner doesn't feel like summoner anymore.

this why they should tried make it feel like summoner again

pet Job aren't away user friendly. name one pet Job that use friendly


I think Yoshi P need accept pet jobs will be less user friendly but more fun. if this can come then improve the summoner will be easyer. just go for make more like a summoner

my suggest was away let Egi grown with the summoner this may also reduce it user friendliness aswell. I not sure the ideal of dreadwyrm Trance was an ideal planned with summoner when realm reborn first came out'
I think the lesson has away been listen to the players who suggest to improve the Egi this has away been issue. the summoner is kind a reflection of ffxiv 1.0 when the devs don't listen to players about suggest improve the Egi themselves

[Karshan]

I think Yoshi P need accept pet jobs will be less user friendly but more fun.

? On the contrary, the very thing that most people don't like is his clunkyness (not user friendly at all). As someone said, the power is not a problem : all parses fused, all bosses combined on Savage, SMN has climbed from n°7 to currently n° 2 (look on the far right the second curve : https://fr.fflogs.com/statistics/17#...000&dataset=95).

No the problem is that the class is unfair : to reach that level you need way more skill than a lot of other classes (okay I'm mostly looking at you RDM). In burst phases it's like a nuclear power plant control room : too many things to look up to at a very precise timing over a very long span of time. Time one of those things wrong : contagion, stimulation, aetherflow, transe, have all your oGCDs ready for Bahamut, mess with the timing of those things and watch your DPS plummet. Ok fine, I can appreciate difficulty, but that's a lot to track in the harder fights that are savages, compared to some classes.

Took me a several hours of dummy training to get it right : shouldn't have been the case for someone who played it for a long time, including savage. Yet it has.
Still in fight it gets and feels messy : shouldn't be the case for someone who played it for long, including savage. Yet it is.
That's a problem with ergonomy : they need to fix that.

Also, yeah death but SMN always had it harder than other classes so nothing new here.

The issue with SMN is the user friendliness, the rotation to achieve top dps is super tight and punishing upon death. Even using aetherflow wrong punishes you immensely.

Using [Forbidden Program Name] does display SMN DPS lower than it actually is, as [Forbidden Program Name] doesn't calculate Dreadwyrm Trance properly. So SMNs are usually have about 10% higher DPS than displayed.

While it is true that forbidden program messes with DWT, it's not 10% : it is 10% x uptime which is 25%, so it actually is 2.5%. Anyway, you're right : Elkanah, a single exemple isn't a rule. Check the fflog link : that's how it gets when averaged on 5K + players.

So damage : not an issue
Rotation to reach it : please fix it Yoshi and dev team.

[Claviusnex]

I must be very misinformed then, as smn with the amount of overmelds I've seen on different smn's in Aether data center and checking with others on stats and numbers doing savage content, and how the person is playing it, always puts SMN at #4, and I'm always around #1/2 spot on RDM myself in dps. I will take back my statement if the issue isn't so much the smn class, but the user friendliness of the skills surrounding it. I've also seen a hefty amount of people ask the smn to change classes to something else entirely, and playing the job even at 60, felt odd anymore with many of the skills in HW having vanished to simplify it (as it says it's supposed to).

As has been said the current abilities are clunky to the point your average player does not come close to being able to exploit the role's full DPS unless they have a perfect run. A mistake of just about any type forces the SMN to rebuild their burst finisher from the beginning unlike any other job. This problem isn't just limited to the current battle and can continue to have an effect as your progress through a dungeon due to losing of synchronization of CD's with the run. There is also an issue with all of the various Ruins at end game. Not only do they add to the clunk but their MP costs are out of balance for their potency. Lastly they were suppose to be getting rid of action bloat yet left in some useless ones and removed some that were useful further interrupting smooth action flow.

None of this resolves the problem of SE not appearing to know what they want the Summoner to be. I think a lot of the clunkyness could be resolved if they had a clear idea of what type of class they want for the job. In HW it was more of a DoT class with a pet. In SB it is like they went with it being kind of a DoT class, kind of a pet class and kind of a traditional FF Summoner. Who knows what it will be the next time they decide to make a significant change.

[Savagelf]

I think what SE need do return to summoner be a pet job class. the dreadwyrm trance kind see to me outplace in ffxiv summoner ability

I think one could improve the Egi themslef by introduce a trait that called Summon magic Mastery the allow Egi by lvl improve for 50 up. that each 10 lvl the Egi stage would change
such as Ifrits would change it for to be more powerful.

each summon has a role in mind

Ifrits is melee dps
Garuda range dps
Titan tank
so one could improve the Egi by focus on it that way
each Egi could have aura that buff each job Ifrits could melee dps aura garuda range dps aura. Titan could an ability soak damage of the tank called Titan ward

each Egi could go through stage of growth

for wisp form to a more permantel form this way you could still glamourized it back to Carbruncle

[Silkerin]

I think what SE need do return to summoner be a pet job class. the dreadwyrm trance kind see to me outplace in ffxiv summoner ability

I personally wouldn't mind for trance to "go away", and in it's place instead of trance, you get a timed stance/buff, that makes your ruin3/4s cheaper, just like trance, but instead of doing just that, it makes your egi closer to its full form and buffing it like spur, resetting enkindle cd and allowing you to either command the pet to use its final move, or the smn itself doing it, because of how bad pet response is...

this way I think smn would move towards the more traditional smn from the series that some people want, while still retaining the way it works.

[Grimoire-M]

I personally wouldn't mind for trance to "go away", and in it's place instead of trance, you get a timed stance/buff, that makes your ruin3/4s cheaper, just like trance, but instead of doing just that, it makes your egi closer to its full form and buffing it like spur, resetting enkindle cd and allowing you to either command the pet to use its final move, or the smn itself doing it, because of how bad pet response is...

this way I think smn would move towards the more traditional smn from the series that some people want, while still retaining the way it works.

Trance is fine (keep in mind it buffs your pet too). Hell Bahamut conceptually is fine, as summoning him fits extremely well as an extension of the Trance system. The problem is the aetherflow lockouts. There's definitely some shoddy implementation too (Addle procs Wyrm Wave, button bloat cause Bahamut/Akh Morn isn't integrated into DWT/Deathflare, Contagion/Radiant Shield/Rouse exasperate the lockout issues in different ways), but everything majorly wrong with Summoner currently stems from the fact we're forced to separate our aetherflow from DWT. Yoshi-P intended for DWT to be filler in Heavensward, and the player base found a better way to use it by stacking Aetherflow and DWT. Instead of embracing how the player base was using DWT, he forced his idea of how SMN -should- work down our throats for Stormblood. And look what it's done.

It's not worth it. It's simply not worth it, for casual and hardcore players alike, this is a badly implemented, poorly thought out system, but one that can easily be fixed. Just remove the locks. Let Summoners go wild for a patch, then tune their damage down while releasing harder to implement QoL.