Why CNJ > WHM & THM > BLM does make sense: A canoical study.

[Wynn]

con:
protect, Shell, Stoneskin, Cure, Curega, lightning bolt

thm:
shockspikes, reggen (heal+sacrifice your HP), shadow bolt, poison, bio.

Lighting is a BLM spell

CNJ has shock spikes.

Regen is a WHM spell.

Shadow bolt is an XIV fabrication and is thus irrelevant.

so what does look more like a blm?
the con ONLY seemed to be a blm just of the elemental spells, but thats it.
THM was always in the role on the "dark side".

The thaumaturg's guild is about the science of death. their practices where discussed world wide in Eorzea... THM is about sacirificing HP or from the dead to convert them for example into MP..

CON was always about nature, healing arts without hurting themselves... so who is looking more "enlightened" to you??

You have no idea what the classes are about, obviously. More ignorance. These forums make my brain hurt.

[Betelgeuzah]

The point is, this "evil" thing is a pointless thing to argue about since BLM is not evil and THMs aren't evil either. You equate words like "shadow" with "evil." Your morality is far too black and white. See what I did there?

The point is, this "evil" thing makes the choices obvious. THM has these skills and spells:

Scourge
Blood Rite
Dark Seal
Shadowfall
Shadowsear
Contagion

Regardless of whether THM is "evil", "absolute" or whatever it is clearly less suited to be a WHM than BLM. It is far easier and believable to turn BLM into a darker, evil, absolute Job regardless of it's past than it is to turn WHM into one.

[Tonkra]

The point is, this "evil" thing is a pointless thing to argue about since BLM is not evil and THMs aren't evil either. You equate words like "shadow" with "evil." Your morality is far too black and white. See what I did there?

i think he implemented it with "darkness" .... and thm is about darkness, death and so on. Skills like "bio" "scourge" "sacrificing" something is all about "dark magic" ... more than healing arts like cure, silena and so on... with the intention of protecting and healing peoples wounds.

[Malakhim]

If you look at the differences between traditional incarnations of what "Black Mage" and "White Mage" really are(which are pretty much just priest and mage/wizard) in the Judeo-Christian sense, then black magic is "evil" in the sense that it's a secular practice without the blessing of God. As opposed to white mages, which would in this case exist strictly to serve God and society, a Black Mage would be a self-interested scientist in search of natural truth and power.

But if we're talking about straight up ability sets, I ALWAYS played Black Mage for Ancient Magick(like Flare or Cyclone) and Dark Magick like Bio.

[Wynn]

The point is, this "evil" thing makes the choices obvious. THM has these skills and spells:

Scourge
Blood Rite
Dark Seal
Shadowfall
Shadowsear
Contagion

Regardless of whether THM is "evil", "absolute" or whatever it is clearly less suited to be a WHM than BLM. It is far easier and believable to turn BLM into a darker, evil, absolute Job regardless of it's past than it is to turn WHM into one.

THM also has:

Banish
Dia
Paralyze
Silence
Exaltation
Resurrect


CNJ has spells like

Burn
Drown
Nature's Fury
Not to mention all the nasty nukes

Hardly sounds all peaches and cream to me.


ME: stop saying they are evil. Nothing here is evil
YOU: but they are evil, its obvious
ME: no they aren't
YOU: they are evil cause they are evil. Look the word blood is in one of their abilities. See... EVIL
ME: /facepalm

[Tonkra]

Regen is a WHM spell.

no its not, like it works in FFXIV.

the "Regen" spell from THM sacrifices his OWN LP to heal someone... a white mage won't sacrifice any to heal someone.. and thats the difference. it reminds me off classes like necromancer of other games or other classes which belong to "darkness".

THM is about sacrificing something to receive something... LP drain, MP drain (which works better on dead monsters)
is this what a white mage is about? so? aha..

yes conjurer(druid) has all these elemental spells ... i think the intention of the old dev team was (elemental spells belong to nature, so we're going to give him to the con... conjurer had the "nature type" role and thm the really dark, heretic role like you can see if you follow the story plot)

Shadow bolt is an XIV fabrication and is thus irrelevant.

no its not irrelevant... it shows which role thaumaturge is... "dark" "shadow"

You have no idea what the classes are about, obviously. More ignorance. These forums make my brain hurt.

No you do not, because SE was in the same opinion ... how come. maybe because it made more sense because of the thaumaturge "role" within the FFXIV lore. looking at his guild (a heretical guild), his story, his skills.. it make much more sense.

i mean everybode would have told you that conjurer (druid in german translation) is better in healing skills. buff skills etc than any thm.

a thm is about science of death, debuffing monsters, poison them, weaken them, sacrificing health to perform spells etc. pp. so why can you even think thm could be an enlightened white mage?

THM also has:

Banish
Dia
Paralyze
Silence
Exaltation
Resurrect


CNJ has spells like

Burn
Drown
Nature's Fury
Not to mention all the nasty nukes

all of the skills like banish will be switched to con.

and nature's fury gives you the intention of "dark magic"?
dark mage isnt that for me "living along the nature" "listen to the flowers" sorry ;D
that would be more to a kind of druid.

how is it called in english? "naturopathy"

a conjurer is a druid in german translation (as i said before) with that in mind its even much more clear

[Betelgeuzah]

THM also has:

Banish
Dia
Paralyze
Silence
Exaltation
Resurrect

So? Those spells hardly sound like a WHM protecting his allies or healing them, they are offensive spells resurrect aside. It's still easier to fit BLM onto that template.

CNJ has spells like

Burn
Drown
Nature's Fury
Not to mention all the nasty nukes

That's the offensive part of CNJ which WHM gives up for increased healing capabilities. Those spells sound completely neutral, not dark and gloomy like THM's spells.

Hardly sounds all peaches and cream to me.

Hardly sounds dark and gloomy to me.

ME: stop saying they are evil. Nothing here is evil
YOU: but they are evil, its obvious
ME: no they aren't
YOU: they are evil cause they are evil. Look the word blood is in one of their abilities. See... EVIL
ME: /facepalm

Evil or not doesn't matter. Their abilities and spells fit BLM better than they fit WHM. This is a fact.

CNJ could go either way- THM can't with spells like Contagion and Scourge. That is why THM is BLM.

[Wynn]

no its not, like it works in FFXIV.

the "Regen" spell from THM sacrifices his OWN LP to heal someone... a white mage won't sacrifice any to heal someone.. and thats the difference. it reminds me off classes like necromancer of other games or other classes which belong to "darkness".

THM is about sacrificing something to receive something... LP drain, MP drain (which works better on dead monsters)
is this what a white mage is about? so? aha..

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Regen_%28Ability%29

The word is sacrifice, as in I am making a sacrifice of my life to heal yours. Sounds kind of martyr like, no?

no its not irrelevant... it shows which role thaumaturge is... "dark" "shadow"

Shadow is just the inverse of light. A duality if you will. Kind of like The Thal to its Nald, if you get my meaning.

i mean everybode would have told you that conjurer (druid in german translation) is better in healing skills. buff skills etc than any thm.

CNJ is only recently better at healing for the same arbitrary reasons they are now going to unlock WHM. Someone flipped a coin and picked CNJ.

a thm is about science of death

No they aren't. Educate yourself please. ONCE AGAIN....

THMs revere the god Nald'thal. A dual god whose sphere of influence is life, the afterlife, and transactions. Not death, not destruction

why can you even think thm could be an enlightened white mage?

Because the god they serve is literally the god of life? WTF...

Quoted from Eorzeapedia since most of you only get your info from fansites instead of seeking the source in game:

Nald'thal the Traders is one of the Twelve. He is the patron deity of Ul'dah where two great halls, devoted to his two aspects, can be found in the eastern and western sections of the city.

Nald rules over the world of the living, and Thal keeps the realm of the dead

[Wynn]

...

So your argument is that THMs abilities are offensive so they are BLM but CNJs abilities are offensive so they shouldn't be BLM. Also, you really think burn and drown sound neutral?

[Betelgeuzah]

So your argument is that THMs abilities are offensive so they are BLM but CNJs abilities are offensive so they shouldn't be BLM. Also, you really think burn and drown sound neutral?

THM's abilities and spells are dark and gloomy. CNJ's abilities and spells are neutral (not dark and gloomy). That is why THM should be BLM and CNJ should be WHM. Out of both Jobs the one that fits the description of "dark and gloomy" better is BLM. WHM can keep it's neutral spells and it will be less in conflict with the Job than THM's spells are.

You can keep on insisting that BLM's aren't evil. It doesn't matter. WHM's are less likely to have access to dark and gloomy spells than BLM, thus BLM's role in this game is to be dark and gloomy.

My argument is clear and you aren't making it any less true by twisting it to suit whatever you want to say.