Why CNJ > WHM & THM > BLM does make sense: A canoical study.

[Duuude007]

As a foreword, I am certain I am not the only one who is tired of hearing the arguments of why Thaumaturge being Black Mage is wrong, as well as the arguments of Conjury and White mages. People argue that a roughly translated definition of the name, or something within the game such as "who has what heals or what nukes or what buffs/debuffs".

I am constantly striving to provide effective analysis of information, and therefore felt inclined to gather, interpret, and finally detail for the community which discipline of magic truly embodies the jobs of WHM and BLM best, and why.

Any feedback is appreciated, even encouraged.

Supporting evidence that Conjurers have Canonical White Mage backgrounds

"Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings...Attuned to the essence of all things around them, the conjurers' intimacy with all forms of being enables them to shift between offensive and defensive magic as needed." --- Official site, Armory

Conjury guild located at: Stillglade Fane, Gridania; Definition of FANE: a church --- Merriam Webster

At entrance to Conjury Guild: Khuja Zhwan: "Beyond here lies Stillglade Fane. It is sacred ground, marked by the Skyserpent's Egg, the Stone cast to Eorzea from the heavens by Nophica the Matron."

T'nbulea: "Worry not. The elementals will protect us from all evils─Garlean or otherwise."

Concessa: "Please, do not sully me with your presence. The stench of the woodsin is all about you."

Commonly used Conjurer weapons: Wands & radicals blooming with life.

The symbol for Conjury: A blooming twig

Default attack: Spirit Dart

Only TP- Based moves: Radiance & Levinbolt, dealing astral-based damage. (Light and Lightning)

Supporting evidence that Thaumaturges have Canonical Black Mage backgrounds

"In the hands of a skilled practitioner, thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction...To then mold [sic] aether into sorcery, the thaumaturge makes use of a scepter or staff...Thaumaturges are unparalleled in their powers of destruction, eclipsing even the Disciples of War." --- Official site, Armory

Thaumaturgy guild located at: Arrzaneth Ossuary, Uld'ah; Definition of OSSUARY: a depository for the bones of the dead --- Merriam Webster

At entrance to Thaumaturgy Guild: Eleanor: "One of the thaumaturges in there once told me to come to him in my darkest hour. For a price, he'd exact whatever revenge I saw fit, he said. Tempting, no?"

Yayake: "All life culminates in the birth of death, so say we all. Greetings, and welcome to the Arrzaneth Ossuary.... Do you desire to see the other realm through the eyes of a thaumaturge? Do you wish to know the limits of this mortal coil?"

Fyrilsunn: "Arrzaneth Ossuary is the temple of Thal.
.. His aspect is that of death and darkness, that which we shall all come to know in time. Many of the poor and destitute worship here. For it is they who seek a better place in death than they knew in life."

Tutubuki: "If you would walk these halls, you must know of Nald'thal, the two aspects. It is Nald who rules over this world of the living, and Thal who keeps the realm of the dead.
.. All which lives must die, and to cross over one must be devout of mind─a true follower of Thal."

Commonly used Thaumaturge weapons: Staves & brands carved from the bones of the dead.

The symbol for Thaumaturgy: An urn, filled with flames.

Default attack: Phantom Dart

Only TP- Based moves: Damnation & Flashfreeze, dealing Umbral-based damage. (Dark and Ice)

In conclusion (and tl:dr version): CNJ = WHM and THM = BLM, because:

Descriptions: CNJ = Creation vs. THM = Destruction
Guilds: CNJ = Church vs. THM = Crypt
Deity: CNJ = Nophica, aspect of growth and abundance vs. THM = Thal, aspect of death and darkness
Role: CNJ = Protectors vs. THM = Revenge
Dislikes: CNJ = Sin vs. THM = Safety
Weapons: CNJ = Life vs. THM = Death
Normal Attack: CNJ = Spirit vs. THM = Phantom
TP Attack: CNJ = Astral vs. THM = Umbral

edit: title typo, meant to say "canonical"

[Kopuno]

I applaud you sir, but I can quickly see this turning into the next "Why didn't you post in the last 50 cnj/thm threads" and the "no way, that makes no sense.. Totally SE is stupid if they think CNJ who has the most blm spells should be whm!!" Anyways prepare for the flames but good job on looking shit up. +1

[Bowen]

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.


Though, I do see some logic in here though.

[Soukyuu]

Meh, I guess it does make sense, kinda. Though I wouldn't say THM "dislike life"

I guess I was too fixed on the whole "elemental nukes = BLM" and didn't separate the class from the job. If they require you to level both THM and CNJ to get either WHM and BLM then THM>BLM makes sense

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.

Because the guild our THM belong to is worshiping Thal

[Hartigan_Redsail]

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.


Though, I do see some logic in here though.

Because that is not where THM hang out?

[Tonkra]

Because that is not where THM hang out?

you say so? the guild of each class is the mirror of what the class is.
regarding lore and story. Thaumaturgery is often mentioned in the same sentence with "dark sorcery" "unsave" "death" for several times. (that i've posted above) all other stuff is just your own interpretation you would like it to have.

i mean what part of "sorcery" "dark" "death" "mind manipulating" the people dont get, eh?
i wouldnt say its about their personalitys itself (like the blackmage isnt evil) but they use and draw benefit from dark (black) magic. while the conjurer is taking his benefit from nature.

And if that would be false why do you think SE picked the thm to be blm? how come? its in the story, its in the lore, its in his playstyle and in his abillities. (not for 100% but thats why they want to switch some skills over to thm and backward to con) and so everyone gets his stereotype class back we had in all FF's before

end of discussion

[Wynn]

Because that is not where THM hang out?

Yes, they do.

[Duuude007]

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.

Because that is not where THM hang out?

Yes, they do.

I think you are confusing two completely different places in Ul'dah.

Millvaneth Sacrarium worships the aspect of Nald, aka LIFE
Presently no guild resides in the temple of Nald

Arrzaneth Ossuary worships the aspect of Thal, aka DEATH
Presently the Thaumaturge guild resides in the temple of Thal

[Wynn]

I think you are confusing two completely different places in Ul'dah.

Millvaneth Sacrarium worships the aspect of Nald, aka LIFE
Presently no guild resides in the temple of Nald

Arrzaneth Ossuary worships the aspect of Thal, aka DEATH
Presently the Thaumaturge guild resides in the temple of Thal

NO!

The temples are dedicated to the two aspects but they are the same Order. The Order of Nald'thal. They are ALL Thaumaturges.

[Klive]

Great post, but do we really need another thread on this?