How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

Pro-parsers bring anecdotes and assumptions. Anti-parsers bring anecdotes and assumptions. Because fundamentally neither can bring any evidence to the table.

Every time anti-parsers bring up community damage which has been felt in other MMOs the pro-parsers bring up the feel in this game... which is anti-parser by design. "It does not happen here so its ok to bring in parsers". Of course it does not happen here, when barely anyone outside of world first raiders uses them. Compared to the other games that anti-parsers draw on where nearly everyone is told to install a parser, and the very problems they bring up become prevalent issues to the point the only way to have any decent community is to literally try your best to isolate off in a guild and only do guild member runs. Building that safe space wall against a terrible community. Which you can just look at WoW, one of the big examples. Overall its a terrible community of elitists and jerks that parse everything, even content that does not "need" it, and use said parses as an excuse and validation to attack others. Then you have the smaller guilds where people get together and it seems like the community is not so bad, because all they ever do is play together in their small tight community and basically cease paying attention to all the others around them.

[Greedalox]

Snip

I'm wondering if you're ignorant to the limits and of the potential of a parser. It's a number, it's still up to you to make that number. The parser didn't make your number higher artificially. People have been kicked from groups for low DPS from people with AND without parsers (Heck I've seen people kicked for having too high DPS)- some people enjoy pushing their limits- and it's certainly not forgetting how to have fun with the game.

It's okay for people to have different motives, if it's as you say there are players who enjoy whatever number God gives them then why is it such a bad thing that there are players who wish to go above and beyond their limits?

It's an MMO- a communal game. People will butt heads. It's okay for there to be players who care about a number and those who are happy as a clam spending 45 minutes in Sastasha. That's why we build cliques, FC's and linkshells so we can play with like minded people. Queueing with randoms is more or less voiding your right to complain about each other in any serious sense.

[Dualgunner]

This game offers some decent challenges and is generally very enjoyable.

Not disagreeing here.

Basically everyone can easily enjoy it. Even so, a small fraction of people won’t accept the fights / challenges for what they are, they are willing to do everything in their power to become, as they personally say it, “the best players they can possibly be”.

What's wrong with trying to be the best you can be?

Sounds nice, unfortunately this also means “getting all the help they can get, from hardware, software, online tools and friends while doing the fights / challenges”. And really, still at first glance this might even seem like the smart and strong thing to do. Causality however, isn’t without a sense of irony though.

I honestly don't know what you think a DPS meter does

The lot dying for public numbers to be shown, are using so much aids for the fights, so much help, in so many different forms

*many

Also the only tool people who parse use that non-parsers don't is ACT, which is just a DPS meter. When applied to FFLogs it's also fight analytics, but that's a post-combat review sort of thing.

so much stuff is macro’d,

Only macro I run is one to specifically target the tank with apoc. Otherwise, macros are somewhat a detriment. Also, macros are something everyone has.

automated, called-out and made as easy as possible for them,

People who use triggers are a different story altogether. That said, are call-outs now something exclusive to the uber elite?

that even the hardest fights become trivial in a very short amount of time.

Go talk to Gordias Savage. We have no tools now we didn't have then.

Yes even boring to them, because of all the extra aid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rmBDHS3CCo

The call for super savage and super extreme savage to the max arises from all of this, but it won’t gratify them.

Some people always seek new heights and challenges to make themselves even better. See: Goku.

It can’t, all the aid makes them too strong, too fast, fights too trivial, the game too easy.

I honestly don't know what you think a DPS meter does

Congratulations, with all your practices to help yourselves and each-other as much as possible, you have completely outplayed yourselves.

Key word: practice and helping each other. But that's a bad thing now I guess.

And here we are, at the real issue at hand; the only thing that is left for these people, while being bored with the fights themselves but still loving the game they’ve put so much tricks into, is seeing everyone’s numbers and seeing who of them had the better aid, who had it easier, who had more luck, basically who is at the top of the number-boards for a while and fight for that, as the fights themselves aren’t interesting enough anymore, it all became too trivial.

Burn out and boredom happens to everyone, not just endgame raiders.

It is nice to beat the game so easily. To feel strong with all the aid. For a while.

I honestly don't know what you think a DPS meter does

But nothing is without consequence. And if you ever think this is what the majority wants you are gravely mistaken; the majority doesn’t want to make the fights trivial to themselves and their friends, they do not want to contest each other instead of the fights themselves, they still want to enjoy the game for what it is and play together for fun. Without the use of so much aid that they actually outplay themselves and become too bored with fighting the game, and turn on each other, to see who’s got it more easy.

ITP: Contests are bad. People can't compete to see who's best at their job, because that's not fun: you can only have fun the way eschaton approves.

You want to improve yourselves you say? Turn all that stuff off.

It'd be nice to have it to turn off in the first place, but I don't.

Play the game again, not each other, not the ignorant community that is enjoying the fights for what they actually are. A game, a fun challenge and not a competition which requires all aid possible to make it as easy as possible to rival over the other players by any means and aid necessary, and have that shown publicly. This is not a war.

Remember kids: if you think competition is fun, you're wrong. Go sit down and have fun how eschaton tells you to. Eschaton is always right.

snip

Not much to reply to here; you said it best, neither side brings anything concrete and worth debating. It would be nice if census data regarding parsing and the community could have been taken / could be taken over the years, to have numbers to work with regarding cost/benefit analysis. That's why mostly I've given up the debate. (Yes I know I'm here posting now--I'm playing Yakuza 0 doing Kiryu's real estate side mission, there's a looooot of downtime).

[akaneakki]

Alrightr.

For those who don't wanna read all what he said: it's fun to enrage boss fights and wipe people,but not fun improving.

[HyoMinPark]

?????????

This post reeks of so much judgementalness it's making my head spin. But according to this individual, the ones who are "pro-parser"/"pro-self improvement"/"pro-challenge" are the "toxic, bad breaths" that need to be gone from this community.....

[Skogli]

Jesus christ! The amount of gangbang happening on this poor guy says more about the parser community then a million words ever would xD

[akaneakki]

Jesus christ! The amount of gangbang happening on this poor guy says more about the parser community then a million words ever would xD

You mean the small part of community who doesn't beg for carry.

[Zeonsilt]

Jesus christ! The amount of gangbang happening on this poor guy says more about the parser community then a million words ever would xD

It's not, look at all his posts in this thread. Most of the time its direct insults, lol.
I don't judge an "anti-parser" community by that guy alone, however, many of his posts is "/facepalm category".
However, if all anti-parser community is like that guy, then we don't have anything to discuss. (it's pointless)

p.s. I got the feeling that he just want this thread to be closed, that's why he provoke people.

[LunaFaye]

Jesus christ! The amount of gangbang happening on this poor guy says more about the parser community then a million words ever would xD

Isn't the parser community. Its the forum community, arguing just for the sake of arguing, because one of their streamers/guides doesn't approve/mentioning it. You can say things like the sky is blue, common sense right, well no it will lead to a 5500 page discussion about how the sky is purple, and how bad you're for even saying it's blue. It's pointless to even have parser/non parser discussions, or any discussions in general, because at the end it's always the same. You don't agree with somebody, all hell breaks loose.

Worse when then these players get post likes, thinking they are right, even so they don't see that they are not. For me it just shows that not only the other person is wrong, even 70+ people believe the same thing, still doesn't make it right tho lol.

[KarstenS]

Sure if a parser shows that someone has low dps you can replace them but there's no guarantee that the replacement will be better unless it's a player you personally know.

Sure. There is no guarantee that the replacement will be better.

But one simple question: What are the alternatives when this one is holding back the group from finishing the fight?

"Trying with someone else" is at least a chance compared to "never do it".

As long you are not allowed to talk about the "low performance", I see no other solution.

Some people say "help them to improve". But how should this get done, when its not allowed to talk about at all?