How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[missybee]

This thread is about parse results, and should be gone from this forum. Be gone, toxic bad-breaths, out of the temple and back to your basements.

This thread isn't about parse results. It is about the fact that having hard DPS checks and simultaneously decrying the use of parsers is silly.

If, in a given fight, each DPS is expected to pull 4k or more, for instance, it is useful to see who is and is not doing that. I don't get how there is an argument there.

That being said, I feel like it is sort of a non-issue so long as you are playing on PC. So long as you don't harass people with their DPS numbers, you are very unlikely to get into any kind of trouble for parsing. It just sucks for the PS4 players who take the game seriously and would like to see exactly how well (or poorly) they are doing.

Is everyone who is anti-parser so afraid of being called out for doing poorly? It's not a big deal. Very few people give a flying flip about your sub optimal expert roulette rotation.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

If, in a given fight, each DPS is expected to pull 4k or more, for instance, it is useful to see who is and is not doing that. I don't get how there is an argument there.

Is there a video of the fight? a single person can cause enrage by doing mechanics.
Leaderboards are about individual, not party performance. It will be clear if it's a bug or needed feature.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Is everyone who is anti-parser so afraid of being called out for doing poorly? It's not a big deal. Very few people give a flying flip about your sub optimal expert roulette rotation.

Not agreeing that parsers are mandatory doesn't necessarily mean that people who don't want them want to intentionally under perform.

[missybee]

Not agreeing that parsers are mandatory doesn't necessarily mean that people who don't want them want to intentionally under perform.

I never said anything about intentionally under performing.

I suspect there are many people who think they are doing well, but really aren't.

When I first got to 60 on my bard back in 2.0, I thought I was playing the job fine. After having had my numbers parsed, however, it quickly became apparent that I was doing pretty poorly. There was nothing intentional about my being bad, it was purely ignorance. When I came to the realization that I didn't want to be a raging trash lord, however, I decided to learn and optimize.

Moreover, I don't think parsing is mandatory. I just think they are a useful tool, particularly in an environment where DPS checks are frequent. People should be allowed to chose to use them or not for their own personal benefit.

???

Mechanics and DPS aren't mutually exclusive. Look at OS3, for instance - it demands a relatively high amount of damage from each player, but is also pretty mechanics-heavy. The job of a DPS is to push out as much damage as possible while doing mechanics correctly - I'm not sure what your point is.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

Mechanics and DPS aren't mutually exclusive. Look at OS3, for instance - it demands a relatively high amount of damage from each player, but is also pretty mechanics-heavy. The job of a DPS is to push out as much damage as possible while doing mechanics correctly - I'm not sure what your point is.

A simple HP per time gauge for the party would be sufficient for that.
Im not for or against showing my own damage, but it becomes the pointing game for leaderboards
and enrage doesn't really relate to single person but more than one.
Anyway, the suggestion is moot because once it out, SE have to police people's interactions
even if it's for ourself, plus fixing 2 different things on a single content/fight if there's a bug .

[Snow_Princess]

Not agreeing that parsers are mandatory doesn't necessarily mean that people who don't want them want to intentionally under perform.

You are missing the point! If we can't have parsers (this is fine, I do not care either way, I do think parsers will add to toxicity in random DFs but this is not the topic of that nor for my personal feelings on parsers) But the thing is, if they are not going to allow parsers while having a stance you shouldn't harass people for playing poorly or not knowing how to play (again fine) then DPS checks, as in, you do not do enough dps the game makes you wipe, should not be a thing. Like for example when niddy was new, it was a >MSQ!!< trial that had a hard to pass DPS check for people to pass on release(In the eyes to a causal anyway, I had a vote abandon pass because people did not want to speak up to the underperforming BLM in our group, or they simply did not know it was the cause of one person). So you can't be putting hard to meet DPS checks in causal content if your not going to allow parsers.

Put it simply:
Get rid of DPS checks (and event triggers based on DPS, I am sick in tried of dying to ifirt/levi because people do not understand you need to stop hitting buttons. Shocked I still can't heal though hellfirespam that is triggered by skipping the final nails and wiping 5%-2% )
Or
Start having an official parser

Having hard DPS checks and take a stance of no parser makes no sense. < so why does SE do this? That is the point of the thread, not how you feel about parsers.

[Cold_Raven]

The main issue with adding a DPS parser to the game is that it focuses the game on DPS.

I agree with this issue.
But this is not a problem with adding a parser.
This is a problem with adding a parser in the wrong way.

A DPS-only parser gives the impression of things being DPS-focused and it can destroy a community by providing a lopsided view of what's required to be a good player.

A DPS-only parser would be terrible in FF14 simply because DPS doesn't tell the whole story about being a good player. It just shows if you can skew one facet of the game to lean more your way for a certain fight. Exceptionally high DPS in a fight only shows you relied on your other party members to do mechanics or to heal you through what you should have spent time on dodging.

So, what's the good way?
Well, what makes a good player?

A good player (in no particular order):
-Manages their DPS (more, more, more!)
-Manages agro (either enough as a tank or not-too-much as a non-tank)
-Manages their health (either by healing or dodging avoidable AoE)
-Manages mechanics (helping the group clear)

Therefore, a good way to do parsing would be to have a metric for each of these important aspects.

Having "just a DPS parser" is as good as having "just an agro parser."
Both provide useful aspects on their own, but both are laughable as some sort of evaluation for "how you are as a whole player." This only sows confusion into the community. The kind of confusion that breeds negativity.

So, show people how they can actually be "good players."
Give us a good parser.
Show us what we all want to know.

Example of a good parser:
-provide an understandable DPS metric
AND -provide an agro metric
AND -provide a healing metric
AND -provide a damage taken metric
AND -provide a mechanics-followed metric

If you do all of this, then you can do "a parser" in the right way and add a great level of benefit to the entire community.

No one can say "your DPS is low" if right beside that value it shows you did all the mechanics in the dungeon and no one else did any. Without you, everyone else would have 0 DPS.

No one can say "learn to heal" when the metric shows they stood in the last 5 avoidable AoEs.

Worried about trolling?
Easy fix to that.
Keep the same regulations about reporting players who use numbers to abuse others.
Make the metrics non-sharable-in-game (personal parsers). You can even only have them show up after you leave the instance.
Make the metrics available (showable) as an option. The default is off. Players must want to find the setting and turn it on.

There are many, many ways to do a good parser that shows all areas of how a "good player" should be. It would be great to know how we're doing and compare it to the average-last-50-runs of the same instance or something like that.

I fully agree that we should not add "just a DPS parser." But, I really, really, really want a good parser that shows all the aspects of playing this game well.

[Snow_Princess]

The main issue with adding a DPS parser to the game is that it focuses the game on DPS.

I agree with this issue.
But this is not a problem with adding a parser.This is a problem with adding a parser in the wrong way.

A DPS-only parser gives the impression of things being DPS-focused and it can destroy a community by providing a lopsided view of what's required to be a good player.

A DPS-only parser would be terrible in FF14 simply because DPS doesn't tell the whole story about being a good player. It just shows if you can skew one facet of the game to lean more your way for a certain fight. Exceptionally high DPS in a fight only shows you relied on your other party members to do mechanics or to heal you through what you should have spent time on dodging.

So, what's the good way?
Well, what makes a good player?

A good player (in no particular order):
-Manages their DPS (more, more, more!)
-Manages agro (either enough as a tank or not-too-much as a non-tank)
-Manages their health (either by healing or dodging avoidable AoE)
-Manages mechanics (helping the group clear)

Therefore, a good way to do parsing would be to have a metric for each of these important aspects.

Having "just a DPS parser" is as good as having "just an agro parser."
Both provide useful aspects on their own, but both are laughable as some sort of evaluation for "how you are as a whole player." This only sows confusion into the community. The kind of confusion that breeds negativity.

So, show people how they can actually be "good players."
Give us a good parser.
Show us what we all want to know.

Example of a good parser:
-provide an understandable DPS metric
AND -provide an agro metric
AND -provide a healing metric
AND -provide a damage taken metric
AND -provide a mechanics-followed metric

If you do all of this, then you can do "a parser" in the right way and add a great level of benefit to the entire community.

No one can say "your DPS is low" if right beside that value it shows you did all the mechanics in the dungeon and no one else did any. Without you, everyone else would have 0 DPS.

No one can say "learn to heal" when the metric shows they stood in the last 5 avoidable AoEs.

Worried about trolling?
Easy fix to that.
Keep the same regulations about reporting players who use numbers to abuse others.
Make the metrics non-sharable-in-game (personal parsers). You can even only have them show up after you leave the instance.
Make the metrics available (showable) as an option. The default is off. Players must want to find the setting and turn it on.

There are many, many ways to do a good parser that shows all areas of how a "good player" should be. It would be great to know how we're doing and compare it to the average-last-50-runs of the same instance or something like that.

I fully agree that we should not add "just a DPS parser." But, I really, really, really want a good parser that shows all the aspects of playing this game well.

This game does not have agro management, FFXI did, this one no. If there is aggro/hate management issues it is a tank problem, it is that simple. A tank that wants to dps more can get agro management tools either by talking about it in a pug ( shadewaker from nin for opener, etc) or having DPS use their tools so they can do so, like diversion, refresh/tactics/ etc... The only argo heavy things that exist are heavy opening openers like my personal experience BLM and MCH, you could easy rip hate off mediocre tanks without using them with those hard hitting openers as well as ripping argo off bad tanks WHILE using them. I got kicked once for "hitting too much buttons" despite me pointing out I did quelling strikes with my raging strikes opener (and took hate after both fallen off, so it was not even heavy hitting damage that point)

You do not need an "agro metric" the game does that, and parsers from the dawn of time, ones that i seen in wow, along for ffxiv, have healing metrics like overheal who did most healing and so on. I am sure they have damage taken as well

mechanics-followed metric makes no sense, you can see that. (also can be seen with the damage taken stats)

Really though, still waiting on the main point of this thread though, why is there strict DPS checks and no official parser ? You do understand what the game does to DPS check right? like on niddy if you do not kill those adds fast enough, and it was common to see back at i200, then your party wipes and need start over. Has nothing to do with any other metric to get it done. In that situation it would be nice to see who is not doing enough dps so you can advice on what to do, or be forced to kick them because the reason you are wiping is because of this person not doing enough DPS because of the DPS check. If yoshi-p hates any form of harassment over doing enough dps , then you NEED TO REMOVE !!! DPS checks because having dps checks without parser makes no sense.

On the subject itself on enrage timers, they exist as another element of challenge to help EX and Savage content live up to their name. If there were no enrages then people would just endlessly do the mechanic dance once learned and eventually take down the boss. Making the difficulty of the difficulty become "learn the mechanic dance" which is something everyone can do.

If Savage and EX primals are there for people to push themselves, they need more then just a mechanic dance. They need a limiter beyond straight mechanics so they do not just half ass play their class and still clear. Hence why the enrages exist.

Ok? what about the causal content that has them though?

[TankHunter678]

Ok? what about the causal content that has them though?

When it comes to casual content they are only really used for fights that are intended to be somewhat difficult on release. Big example being Final Steps of Faith Nidhogg on release. However those fights are generally intended to be one and done. Once you beat the DPS check, which is often times balanced such that if you can do the mechanics of the fight and half decently play your class then you are going to pass, then that is it. You are basically home free to finish off what is after the DPS check phase. Keep doing mechanics properly and you will eventually clear. Once again, the example being Nidhogg.

In general when it comes to casual content enrage timers are very lax, long, and tend to be attached to a specific phase that once beaten will not be an issue for the rest of the fight. O3N for instance has a ~15 minute enrage timer on it that will only ever be hit if the group messes up too many times on mechanics and there are way too many deaths. In other words, when people are slowly learning the fight. I have only ever seen that enrage once.

[Fynlar]

I do think it's rather funny how they officially call the role "DPS" but there is no in-house way to actually determine what that figure is.

Enrage is not about parse results, it is about dying too much.

I've seen enrages happen in fights where nobody died, so not really.