Role Feedback: Tank

[Kaisinel]

Reducing healing that is designed to heal through multiple players by 20% vs increasing damage taken by 10%. There is a reason why WAR/NIN lost their permanent 20% healing down. Let's not forget PLD/DRK have the tools to stop that apparent unhealable damage.

Maim damage buff and the other small buffs you guys are trying to give WAR is not going to fix them.

In the past, PLD was still superior to WAR, and in higher skilled games competed with DRK. Now they're just both straight upgrades from WAR.

I just said I'm not asking for their damage to be buffed over the top.

[Praesul]

Reducing healing that is designed to heal through multiple players by 20% vs increasing damage taken by 10%. There is a reason why WAR/NIN lost their permanent 20% healing down. Let's not forget PLD/DRK have the tools to stop that apparent unhealable damage.

Maim damage buff and the other small buffs you guys are trying to give WAR is not going to fix them.

In the past, PLD was still superior to WAR, and in higher skilled games competed with DRK. Now they're just both straight upgrades from WAR.

I just said I'm not asking for their damage to be buffed over the top.

WAR and NIN lost their healing reduction because pvp back then was a different game. You could stack permanent heal debuffs with damage increase abilities and vuln up debuffs all at the same time, creating these nigh unhealable situations.

And increasing the damage 3 players deal to one person is still better than reducing the heals that one person recieves.

[Kaisinel]

It was removed part by what you mentioned but also because it was a permanent debuff. It was taken away then re-added to shadow fang as a debuff that had diminishing returns. Otherwise they could have just as easily nerfed healing debuffs all around or just for the skills in question.

Reducing the healing of a power house that is made to heal through heaps of damage by 20% vs increasing the damage by 10% for the same combatants fighting against the same powerhouse,hmm. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[Praesul]

It was removed part by what you mentioned but also because it was a permanent debuff. It was taken away then re-added to shadow fang as a debuff that had diminishing returns. Otherwise they could have just as easily nerfed healing debuffs all around or just for the skills in question.

Reducing the healing of a power house that is made to heal through heaps of damage by 20% vs increasing the damage by 10% for the same combatants fighting against the same powerhouse,hmm. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Okay I really don't think you're understanding here. Multiplying everyone's damage, resulting in dealing enough damage to outright kill someone (as in, you can't even heal them back up) > dealing the same amount of damage but allowing the opportunity to be healed up although to a lesser extent.

And butcher's block is as permanent as power slash.

[Kaisinel]

I think you missed a section in my previous post where I said both PLD/DRK can also stop such situations, if they can or even require the debuff to happen. Reducing healing overall creates more situations of sustained burst/damage becoming to overwhelming to keep up resulting in a kill. Where warrior requires the stars to align for the 10% extra damage on a target currently receiving heals to outright die. Let's not forget that DRK also has sole survivor. This isn't the same game as before like you mentioned before, not everyone has the burst to outright solo someone assuming opposing healer isn't "stunned/silence".

I won't be able to convince you, and you won't change my opinion. So just stop trying and let's get back to how weak WAR is.

[Praesul]

I think you missed a section in my previous post where I said both PLD/DRK can also stop such situations, if they can or even require the debuff to happen. Reducing healing overall creates more situations of sustained burst/damage becoming to overwhelming to keep up resulting in a kill. Where warrior requires the stars to align for the 10% extra damage on a target currently receiving heals to outright die. Let's not forget that DRK also has sole survivor. This isn't the same game as before like you mentioned before, not everyone has the burst to outright solo someone assuming opposing healer isn't "stunned/silence".

I won't be able to convince you, and you won't change my opinion. So just stop trying and let's get back to how weak WAR is.

Sole survivor has a cooldown, butcher's block does not. Also, power slash doesn't reduce healer output, it reduces healing received on the target, so no it does not lower the powerhouse's healing by 20%.

WAR's personal damage + group damage contribution beats out the other two. If you want to buff WAR damage then go ahead, but it'd have to be very minor. Their damage is not the issue, literally no one complains about their damage. Their problem is their cc being tied to their resource and invulnerability. Freeing up the gauge cost on Onslaught indirectly increases a WAR's damage output while still giving them stronger CC. Then they need some sustain, and how they're going to go about that I don't know, but a heal on storm's path would be a nice start.

You know, tank stuff, stuff that allows them to be a tank and not a DPS with 15k HP.

[Kaisinel]

Sole survivor is stacked with healing debuff and only used on burst/hard-swaps (when you see your team actively switch to the target) as it should for proper efficiency, not on CD. It nerfs the most potent and main source of healing on said target, and where is that main source of healing coming from, the power house, the healer. Thus, said target getting killed is receiving generally 20% less healing output.

The onslaught cc is hardly reliable, you should know by now how this games latency screws knockbacks. The heal buff on storm's path is to have been expected, the fact that it isn't is dumb.

It's amazing how one dimensional roles are expected to be.

You need to learn how to drop stuff, you seem like the kind to hold on to grudges forever, it's not healthy man.

[SainCheese]

I'm going to voice my opinion in the realist way possible. PvP in this game is garbage and how things are "fixed" is always followed by an uncreative nerf.

[Praesul]

Sole survivor is stacked with healing debuff and only used on burst/hard-swaps (when you see your team actively switch to the target) as it should for proper efficiency, not on CD. It nerfs the most potent and main source of healing on said target, and where is that main source of healing coming from, the power house, the healer. Thus, said target getting killed is receiving generally 20% less healing output.


The onslaught cc is hardly reliable, you should know by now how this games latency screws knockbacks. The heal buff on storm's path is to have been expected, the fact that it isn't is dumb.

It's amazing how one dimensional roles are expected to be.

You need to learn how to drop stuff, you seem like the kind to hold on to grudges forever, it's not healthy man.

You say it as if Sole Survivor is available at all times. Sole survivor has a cooldown. It is not available 24/7, so it deserves to be powerful and stackable with power slash. WAR still has the stronger debuff, which is available at all times, while still having the highest personal damage potential of the three tanks.

Without inner release, they have access to fell cleave and upheaval which is 4k potency in once GCD, none of the other tanks have access to this sort of burst damage potential. If anything the upheaval damage penalty should be removed since it doesn't really make sense in the context in pvp.

Remove the gauge cost from Onslaught, or add a small stun along with the knockback and give it a TP cost and now they can go back to meme cleaving all day.

And it's not a grudge, don't waste your time replying to a feedback thread if you're not willing to keep giving feedback or argue your case. Otherwise what was the point?

[reallycoolguy]

we can all agree that storms eye needs to replace butchers block animation wise