Role Feedback: Tank

[Kaisinel]

How exactly am I saying it as if it's available 24/7 when I mention the CD. You don't even bother to read what is even being said.

I told you I'm never going to be able to convince you otherwise because you are too stubborn, I proposed to drop the particular subject since it's waste of time and effort trying to get through such a thick skull.

Let's keep ignoring the fact that these scenarios of WAR are mitigated/stopped by PLD/DRK. Or how obvious Inner Release is.

I've been arguing my point this entire time, is it really that hard for you to see other people's text?

[AdamZ]

Without inner release, they have access to fell cleave and upheaval which is 4k potency in once GCD, none of the other tanks have access to this sort of burst damage potential.

Yea, causes Pally's Requiescat/Holy is not 3,875 potency and that is very very different from 4k. (Buy the way Requiescat has the same cooldown as Upheaval, but cost no resources.)

[Kaisinel]

we can all agree that storms eye needs to replace butchers block animation wise

Yes please.

[Atreus]

Yea, causes Pally's Requiescat/Holy is not 3,875 potency and that is very very different from 4k. (Buy the way Requiescat has the same cooldown as Upheaval, but cost no resources.)

That's... not a correct comparison. Holy Spirit still costs MP, and Requiescat's damage is scaled horribly based on MP. PLD is constantly dry on MP, making this not even a threatening combination except in the opener.

[Atreus]

I see WAR incredibly rarely in games, especially now. I am hoping this is enough "game data" to respond accordingly.

With more games, I am seeing a glaring issue with PLD that DRK simply does not have: self-sustain and survival. PLD is great in terms of mitigating damage (with intelligent use of Cover) for other teammates, however when they have the medals and have been deemed the target of the enemy, they fall incredibly short.

Not only does Hallowed Ground only cover 5 seconds of an 8-minute game (which can be used roughly 3 times), but with the latest HG change, you cannot even utilize it anymore as a retreat if your healer goes down. Clemency itself is severely gimped when used on the self AND requires stopping and casting.

DRK is able to use The Blackest Night on itself as oGCD while continuing its Souleater combo for ~1k self-healing. That's ~4k of self-sustaining potency for its own survival.

Suggestion for PvP only: allow the 50% bonus of Clemency to apply even when used on the PLD himself. Unbuffed by Requiescat, this will allow a 3k Clemency to be used on the self to match The Blackest Night and will give Requiescat a little more use as a healing tool. The buffed version would be a step in bridging the huge gap in damage output between PLD and DRK.

As in the OP, I still suggest reverting the HG change ONLY in regards to crowd control.

Kindly continue discussing.

[AdamZ]

That's... not a correct comparison. Holy Spirit still costs MP, and Requiescat's damage is scaled horribly based on MP. PLD is constantly dry on MP, making this not even a threatening combination except in the opener.

True true with Pally, it is a trade off. Pally can have bust equal to that of WAR pretty much, or it can be a heal bot. I have seen them played both ways, and I find heal bots easier to win against. A healing Pally is not attacking, they are not CCing. To your other point, I would agree with your change to clemency. I think it is one of the most overrated areas of the Pally kit, as the heal is also giving up a Holy which has some of the Pally CC on it.


For a point of view of SE think this is how they designed them in there head:

WAR - damage and burst - highest burst damage (Up, on, fells under IR)
Pally - trade off, maximum CC (Stun plus Holy Silence) and damage with a bit of support (cover) or good CC (stun only) and maximum support (cover plus Clemency), no damage
DRK - very good CC, very good support (would consider the self's heals as support)

You can see this in Pally and WAR burst are close to lining up, with WAR pully a bit ahead, with DRK not really having a burst at all (double Bloodspiller (very rare to get) plus stun is the closest they get).

Now what was the problem with this? Mostly that tank burst is pointless when a 2 GCD burst window is completely offset by one Cure II. Even a double fell is only a net 1,000 damage if the players as a regen on (with the regen matching damage again on the 3rd gcd again, for a net zero overall).

Which is how WAR becomes useless as it is just damage, pally falls behind DRK as its burst is discounted and its support requires trade offs in damage which DRK does not.

[Synestra]

Suggestion for PvP only: allow the 50% bonus of Clemency to apply even when used on the PLD himself. Unbuffed by Requiescat, this will allow a 3k Clemency to be used on the self to match The Blackest Night and will give Requiescat a little more use as a healing tool.

Why don't you just use conva for those big fat clemen.... oh wait all those awesome CD's got removed nvm then >_>

[Atreus]

Why don't you just use conva for those big fat clemen.... oh wait all those awesome CD's got removed nvm then >_>

HEH.. EHEHEH.. heh *cries*

For real though, PLD feels helpless late-game with medals. Give us our 50% bonus on self-heals. ;;

[Atreus]

Updated in response to 4.06a, cleaned up the OP and removed a fair amount to place emphasis on more important points (and also improve readability).

PLD was undeniably nerfed with no return in place. WAR got a needed buff. DRK remains virtually untouched.

See OP and discuss.

[KusoWat]

Cover really needs built in mitigation like in pve, or like have it automatically put you into shield oath when you cover or something.

So tired of PLD using cover without mitigation and just getting nuked from orbit.