Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[Kabooa]

My group got a fending ring yesterday, and even though I was the one who got it, I wish it would've dropped dps or healer accessories instead since that'd provide more benefit for my group. I'd rather have the devs reduce our potencies while giving us full amount of dps main stats on both left and right side gear. At least that way it won't feel as terrible as now when I see fending accessories drop.

By this logic, you don't need the DPS accessories to clear it either, because Omega is done. I mean, sure , it'll clear -faster-, but not much faster than the people who get consistent fending and healing drops.

[Alphras]

The scaling is still a major issue yes. The Problem is that tank right side starts at about 36% of dps right side, but scales only with 14%. Tanks get only 1 mingy STR point per right side upgrade.

Groups will still be disappointed when they see tank accessoiries drop, tanks still need to pass on right side upgrade items in favor of improving the group as a whole and crafted right side will be best in slot for the whole tier again.

I don't know why SE has such a problem addressing these issues. They have them since the 2.x days and it gets really frustrating ...

[Rbstr]

By this logic, you don't need the DPS accessories to clear it either, because Omega is done. I mean, sure , it'll clear -faster-, but not much faster than the people who get consistent fending and healing drops.

If there was only one Omega trial. But there are 3 more, increasingly hard, trials afterward. Chances are the upgrades will help them with V2 ect.
In that way tanking accs. are a detriment since they provide much less overall benefit.

[whiskeybravo]

Groups will still be disappointed when they see tank accessoiries drop, tanks still need to pass on right side upgrade items in favor of improving the group as a whole and crafted right side will be best in slot for the whole tier again.

What? How on earth does passing on a fending accessory now improve the group? It's not like that fending accessory magically turns into a dps or healer accessory...

[Inuakurei]

The scaling is still a major issue yes. The Problem is that tank right side starts at about 36% of dps right side, but scales only with 14%. Tanks get only 1 mingy STR point per right side upgrade.

Groups will still be disappointed when they see tank accessoiries drop, tanks still need to pass on right side upgrade items in favor of improving the group as a whole and crafted right side will be best in slot for the whole tier again.

I don't know why SE has such a problem addressing these issues. They have them since the 2.x days and it gets really frustrating ...

The core issue is that VIT is a worthless stat. Until that changes, Fending acessories will always be worse. They could give Fending all the STR they want, but unless its equal or greater to the STR that a dps accessory would give, groups will always be disappointed by a Fending drop. More STR isn't the issue, useless VIT is.

The only true way to fix this, is to rework VIT into something useful. In my opinion think the entire Tank role needs an overhaul.

[aleph_null]

By this logic, you don't need the DPS accessories to clear it either, because Omega is done. I mean, sure , it'll clear -faster-, but not much faster than the people who get consistent fending and healing drops.

But dps always benefits the group, since it covers for mistakes (deaths, missed uptime/positionals, failed casts, suboptimal strategies) which happen a lot during prog. Also sometimes you're racing against dps checks or enrage timers. There is a reason why most, if not all progression groups give upgrade items to dps first before tanks/healers.

What? How on earth does passing on a fending accessory now improve the group? It's not like that fending accessory magically turns into a dps or healer accessory...

He was talking about upgrade item, whatever the new thing is called (was gobcoat in alex savage). Unless the tank upgrades belt, the priority for gobcoat should be dps > healer > tank (dps > tank > healer if the tank upgrades belt).

[whiskeybravo]

But dps always benefits the group, since it covers for mistakes (deaths, missed uptime/positionals, failed casts, suboptimal strategies) which happen a lot during prog. Also sometimes you're racing against dps checks or enrage timers. There is a reason why most, if not all progression groups give upgrade items to dps first before tanks/healers.



He was talking about upgrade item, whatever the new thing is called (was gobcoat in alex savage). Unless the tank upgrades belt, the priority for gobcoat should be dps > healer > tank (dps > tank > healer if the tank upgrades belt).

Ah, my bad. Missed that.

[Shinkyo]

The scaling issue is only a perception thing really. Not an actual gameplay issue.
First I want to stress that it is inconceivable that the current savage was balanced with the additional tank STR in game. There was simply no time for SE to rebalance with the 4.05 change. Realistically, they put the STR on fending accessories to exactly match the 270 onces (with substats considered) and did a quick regression test to verify that it's significantly trivializing the raids.
It's pretty obvious from the +2 STR on the 340 accessories.


Anyways, SE designed/balanced the raid content with a certain idea of Tank DPS and they already gave us more than that target.
As for scaling or power growth, we just got it delivered up front and is not a scaling issue.

Consider this, a Tank and a DPS are given a project (upgrade their accessories) for an end reward of X attack power (being different values for Tank/DPS).
The DPS is offered 20% of the payment for each milestones (accessory upgrade).
The Tank is offered 75% as upfront payment before starting the work, and 5% for each milestone.
Both get their due reward at the end of the day.

Sure we get less AP than a DPS at the end of the day, but from a scaling perspective, the tank got the better deal.
The issues is that getting the small increase after putting a lot of work feels unrewarding but that's all.

Now I'm confident that the next raid content will be better scaled for a more linear increase in AP for tank since the content and gear can now be designed with the added STR to fending accessories in mind.

[Seku]

Personally, it's because I don't care about any damage modification based solely on gear.
And that's even before mentioning that turtle tanking has more appeal to me since I admit it's only a personal preference.

If the enmity dump skills are enough, then the main concern of this topic is a non-issue...which it already isn't since we have a huge enmity generation anyway.

Your argument makes 0 sense. You want them to nerf tank damage, because you prefer to sit in tank stance when there is 0 reason to, unless you're running with a healer that can't keep you up? -- makes 0 sense.

Just because you don't care about contributing to your group through damage, while still meeting tank buster checks and keeping aggro, doesn't mean other's don't. As for your rotation and cool downs, it's not hard to memorize out going tank busters. I'd hope you know your rotations and cool downs, as that's the bare minimal for any fight and for any role, the entire system runs on a clock and burst windows.

The main concern of this topic won't be a issue for a very long time, as stated multiple times by the OP. They are just trying to address a possible issue that can become huge..

But bringing down tank damage for the sake of forcing people into a other wise non desired stance is purposely being ignorant. Damage should not be nerf, out going damage to the tanks should be increased to give meaning to defensive stances and defensive stats. Though the only time this is seen at is during progression.

Consider this, a Tank and a DPS are given a project (upgrade their accessories) for an end reward of X attack power (being different values for Tank/DPS).
The DPS is offered 20% of the payment for each milestones (accessory upgrade).
The Tank is offered 75% as upfront payment before starting the work, and 5% for each milestone.
Both get their due reward at the end of the day.

The "X" in this equation is what matters the most. The tank is offered 75% upfront. But 75% of what and an additional 5% of what? If the variable "x" for attack power is 50 for tanks, but the DPS attack power variable "x" is 200, as that's their payment for each patch cycle of gear, then the gap between tanks and DPS increases each patch cycle, instead of staying a static amount different from each other.

As for you being confidant in what SE is going to do, that's cool. But really no one knows what their going to do until they do it.

[Kabooa]

But dps always benefits the group, since it covers for mistakes (deaths, missed uptime/positionals, failed casts, suboptimal strategies) which happen a lot during prog. Also sometimes you're racing against dps checks or enrage timers. There is a reason why most, if not all progression groups give upgrade items to dps first before tanks/healers.

You can contextualize it all you want, the fact of the matter is that getting 'fending' one week is no different than getting 'slaying' another, because the stuff is clearable with the i320 crafted / Omega story.

In this regard, getting fending over DPS/Healing isn't a huge detriment, especially since it's only on the right side, which is significantly less than leftside upgrades.

I can't speak for the day-1 clearers, but I doubt any of them saw nothing but Slaying drop, and those drops likely did not influence the clear orders at any significant margin.