Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[Kabooa]

By no stretch of the imagination will DPS accessories provide 1k, 2k, or 3k attack power over a tank during this patch cycle.

[ArianeEwah]

Actually, I would have liked to get FULL STR on our accessories, then set our attack power to like 0.9x STR. If you compare STR DPS (DRG/MNK/SAM) to STR Tanks with the new acc and +25 STR materia melded, tank STR is roughly 90% of DPS STR.

So, why not this, we would have even been able to meld secondary stats in our acc :'(

But no, we still HAVE to meld STR - a PRIMARY STAT - as the ONLY role in this whole game!

[Kabooa]

As a Black Mage, I wish I could meld more Intelligence onto my accessories.

[ADVSS]

As a Black Mage, I wish I could meld more Intelligence onto my accessories.

in this since, you would be able to, but youd only have like 20 int on each piece antwat so youd have to.

I'm not against the idea of being better at the same rate, I'm against the doomsayer that say we're screwed.

Besides, I don't know the exact formula, but my guess would be that gaining 30% at 3000DPS requires much more STR than gaining 30% at 1000 DPS. Will we really fall further and further on a percentage base ?

On a sidenote, main stat is not the only thing that dicates damage. Our potencies are comparable to most DPS potencies, and our weapon damage is exactly the same.

10 more strength per 20 ilevels on right side, i dunno how much more dps get, what is it like 14 more every 20 ilevers per piece?

[FallenWings]

It'll be funny when Fell Cleave/Bloodspiller/Holy Spirit does less then any DPS's or healers first attack action.

Ofcourse for that to happen it'll be many expansion cycles away of no changes to the formula. But it's a pretty sad yet amusing prospect with these changes.

[BlackironTarkus]

It'll be funny when Fell Cleave/Bloodspiller/Holy Spirit does less then any DPS's or healers first attack action.

Ofcourse for that to happen it'll be many expansion cycles away of no changes to the formula. But it's a pretty sad yet amusing prospect with these changes.

Thank you for understanding! This isn't a problem for now. It won't be a problem for a while. But it's looming, and the effects it has on those who okay the role can be felt right now.

[Reynhart]

Little calculation :

If you take a full set of i270 gear, a DRG would have 1307 STR (189 for weapon, 104 for head, hands and feet, 169 for body and legs, and 78 for every accessory). For the same ilevel, with vit acc melded with STR V, a PLD would have 992 STR, so, around 75%.

If you make the same calculation at i340, the DRG will have 2158 STR, while the PLD will have 1848 (If you can meld STR VI on Vit acc), so, 85%

So, infact, the AP ratio has decreased.

NB : If you ignore STR meld at all, the ratio would have shifted from 70% to 79%

[BlackironTarkus]

Little calculation :

If you take a full set of i270 gear, a DRG would have 1307 STR (189 for weapon, 104 for head, hands and feet, 169 for body and legs, and 78 for every accessory). For the same ilevel, with vit acc melded with STR V, a PLD would have 992 STR, so, around 75%.

If you make the same calculation at i340, the DRG will have 2158 STR, while the PLD will have 1848 (If you can meld STR VI on Vit acc), so, 85%

So, infact, the AP ratio has decreased.
NB : If you ignore STR meld at all, the ratio would have shifted from 70% to 79%

This is because of the nice hefty "flat" +40 STR boost on 5 pieces giving us +200 attack power right now. This is the flat bonus I was talking about. From this point onwards, DPS will gain more and more attack power above tanks in increasing %'s.

Right now we have 1848 and the DRG has 2158. If we get another +2 per item at i360 and they get another +14 per item at i360k, and everything else increases by the same way it always has, the Dragoon will be a net 50 attack power ahead of the PLD in terms of overall gains.

The next set, if it stays the same, will increase the difference in gains to 100. Again, assuming all other gear increases in stats as they always have.

The set after that, the difference in gains will increase to 150. Then 200, then 250, then 300, so on so forth.

This scaling increase they get over tanks, and the fact that DPS can more efficiently convert Attack Power into Damage via Potency Per Second, starts out slow but adds up over time.

It's not going to a be a problem now. It won't be a problem in 4.1, or 4.2, or even 4.3 or 4.4. Maybe it won't even be a problem when 5.0 launches. But if SE's policy on how how tanks scale compared to the scaling of every other class doesn't change, we will run into the "I'm in Grit/ShO/Defiance, and spamming Aggro, and I'm losing hate!" issue.

To fix it and keep us scaling lower, they will have to continually patch in random huge stat jumps in our accessories (Like another +40 STR to all accessories at some random point for a 10 ilvl jump), or continually increase the multiplier we get to threat from increased threat abilities and our stances.

I want to get this issue raised and fixed now, because it takes SE forever to actually take action on these things. If I recall correctly, SE stated themselves they knew parry was bad as early as 3.1 or 3.2, and told us to look to 3.4 for a possible time frame. It wasn't until SB launched that anything actually happened.

We need to raise the issue now for any chance of curbing it before it becomes a massive must-be-put-out fire. It's a super slow burning problem, but a significant one.

The same thing is happening with our health pools. We will continue to get more and more hp at a faster rate than the other classes, and tuning raidwide damage to threaten us will only hurt the other classes.

It would be best for everyone if tanks were always +XX% more HP than a DPS, and -XX% lower damage than a DPS, relative to eachother. That way both raid and solo content and everything inbetween can be sensibly adjusted for a reasonable difficulty curve for all roles instead of eventually having to tailor-balance everything on a per-role basis.

[ADVSS]

It would be best for everyone if tanks were always +XX% more HP than a DPS, and -XX% lower damage than a DPS, relative to eachother. That way both raid and solo content and everything inbetween can be sensibly adjusted for a reasonable difficulty curve for all roles instead of eventually having to tailor-balance everything on a per-role basis.

Yoyally what Ive been arguing about the whole time! Agree! just that..I have a sad feeling 5.0 will bring another tank dump/overhaul. Like say they come up with a new caster tank thats been requested "owps we gonna scale tank AP with VIT now, we sowwy"''

But esides that 1 case, personally itd just be easier for them to scale it like you mentioned, never have to worry about enmity buffing, theyd have a hell of an easier time scaling future content, and tanks would progress just like every other job doesb

[Reynhart]

Again, assuming all other gear increases in stats as they always have.

Between i270 and i340, STR has increased by :
+0.00294118/ilvl on a weapon
+0.00172425/ilvl on head/hands/feet
+0.00282291/ilvl on body and legs
+0.00129318/ilvl on waist and accessories
For VIT accessories, it's a little different, but checking i320, i330 and i340, STR has increased by :
-0,0000735/ilvl on VIT accessories (So, in fact, the ratio is decreasing)

I used those numbers to imagine what stats would be at ilvl 410, 480, 550, 620 and 690, starting from the i340 values if the stats increase at the same rate. With these calculation, I ended, at ilvl690, at 9572 STR for DRG and 7037 STR for PLD (Without any STR meld), so a ratio of 73%.

Stats will probably change before we reach such a high ilvl (If we ever), but, with this ratio, tanks are still far from being outmatched in enmity.