Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[BlackironTarkus]

320 fending accs look to have 40 str on them, meldable to 65.

[BlackironTarkus]

This is fine, and with substats the difference is made up from Alexandrian slaying.

The big big problem is this:

340 fending seems to have +42 str. 20 item levels and only a gain of 2.

The issue I raised before where eventually with enough time if nothing is changed we could have dps with 1k, 2k, 3k higher attack power than a tank and it will require constant enmity patching has been delayed by 2 patches tops.

We need to gain the same gain that dps get, just on a lower base value.

If dps accs gain 14 str on a 20 ilvl jump, tank accs need to gain 14 too. By handing dps +14 and tanks +2 for this higher ilvl, eventually you will be back to square one.

A low base for attack power is fine, but for the love of god stop insisting that we get stronger at a slower rate than every other class in the game.we need to get stronger at the same speed as our companions.

[BlackironTarkus]

Had to double post, no way to edit on phone.

[LeeraSorlan]

Had to double post, no way to edit on phone.

The thing is, tanks are not suppose to output dmg at the same levels of dps ykno?it only makes sense the dps will get more stronger than tanks?


unless you are talking about enmity, which is completely irrelevant, Enmity is not an issue for good tanks, even before this and they rocked full Vit. good tanks dont lose enmity.
This impacts nothing, its a damage gain and an enmity gain, no negatives. even later on in patch cycles, we are still getting buffed by the extra str, no matter how minor. and enmity will continue to be irrelevant.


Especially so in raids where u can coordinate the dps to use there enmity drops.

Plus str still scales normally at a regular pace on the left side main gear for tanks.
So its not like you are recieving 10 str per 20 ilvls.

[BlackironTarkus]

You're missing the point.

We can be set to do x% less damage than dps forever and that would be okay. If dps are always 30 % higher then a tank, then that works.

The problem we face here is that dps will start at 30% higher. Then will be 40%. Then 50% higher. Then 60% higher. Eventually and with enough time and gear upgrades dps could be 2x or 3x more dps than a tank and this is a real problem.

Later down the line they will need to constantly buff our threat output to hold aggro against such higher numbers.

[Stormbrand]

You're missing the point.

We can be set to do x% less damage than dps forever and that would be okay. If dps are always 30 % higher then a tank, then that works.

The problem we face here is that dps will start at 30% higher. Then will be 40%. Then 50% higher. Then 60% higher. Eventually and with enough time and gear upgrades dps could be 2x or 3x more dps than a tank and this is a real problem.

Later down the line they will need to constantly buff our threat output to hold aggro against such higher numbers.

Thats true but thats not all thats retarded. Because the str diff is only 2 between savage and lakshmi, some lakshmi peices could be BiS simply because they have more desirable substats

[Ariyn]

You're missing the point.

We can be set to do x% less damage than dps forever and that would be okay. If dps are always 30 % higher then a tank, then that works.

The problem we face here is that dps will start at 30% higher. Then will be 40%. Then 50% higher. Then 60% higher. Eventually and with enough time and gear upgrades dps could be 2x or 3x more dps than a tank and this is a real problem.

Later down the line they will need to constantly buff our threat output to hold aggro against such higher numbers.

Think you are still missing the point. When tanks can sit in DPS stances for the entirety of a fight and never have a chance to lose emnity to dps, then emnity is a non factor. If we were forced to sit in tank stance and spam emnity combos all day just to keep it then you might have a leg to stand on but that's not the case. The only thing you are griping about is that you can't do leet deeps while being a tank. Sorry but if you want to see big numbers roll dps.

[Shurrikhan]

The thing is, tanks are not suppose to output dmg at the same levels of dps ykno? It only makes sense the dps will get more stronger than tanks?

It doesn't, though.

Take enmity out of the equation if you must. Focus just on attack power, which sources both the tank's relative dps (i.e. portion of a particular DPS's dps) and enmity without needing constant patching.

One would expect tanks to be a relatively fixed portion of dps of a "true" DPS. Say... 80%.

That CANNOT occur of tanks are given 100% of a DPS's attack power at one level range, and then 80% for the next, 70% for the set after that, and so forth. At that point you have tiers of said portion, rather than a fixed percentile.

What WOULD make sense is if we:
- Gave tanks Attack Power ONLY from Vitality, but at less than a 1:1 ratio.

This would, however, contribute to "HP bloat" in the same way it did in Heavensward, which some may see as a problem in that it reduces the relative survivability of non-tanks in raids, which already require tank anyways. The rest comes down to simple scaling.
As a side-bonus, tanks are now free to meld their choice of secondary stats on accessories.

- Allow Attack Power gains from both Vitality and Strength, such that Vitality is always the preferred stat, but the combination of the two brings tanks to the intended portion of DPS attack power.

With this, tanks are again only permitted to meld Strength on accessories.

- Allow Attack Power gains from both Vitality and Strength, but at a rate which slightly favors Strength for Attack Power, but keeps it generally less useful for progression than Vitality, and Fending accessories are now split between the two.

With this, tanks have their choice of melding Vitality or Strength, though it will still mostly be decided by their range of content.

In any of these cases, you do NOT arbitrarily adjust AP-generating stats on particular tiers of accessories. Whatever decision you make, you make across the board.

But instead, what we got is a fix for one particular ilvl range, returning the issue any time before or after it, and all without any attempt to curtail HP bloat, which would have been the only reason not to give AP from Vitality in the first place.

[Reynhart]

The issue I raised before where eventually with enough time if nothing is changed we could have dps with 1k, 2k, 3k higher attack power than a tank and it will require constant enmity patching has been delayed by 2 patches tops.

Not necessarily. It's easy to make the gap between tank and DPS higher and higher while still being under the top enmity we can generate.
Between all the enmity bonuses, it's easy for tanks to generate at least three times the enmity of their damage. So, if we have 2k AP and the DPS have 5k, they'll indeed have 3k more than us, but, we'll still generate enmity "as if" we had 6k AP.

What we'll see with this scaling is more and more tank stance required just to keep enmity...which is probably one the reason they changed accessories.

For every 10 str we gain on side, dps gain 35. Eventually you can't hold hate to begin with unless se wants to buff our aggro output every other patch.

Did you take materia melding into account ? And remember that for each STR point we gain on the left side, DPS only gain 1 STR too.

[BlackironTarkus]

This is true but all this does is drive tanks away. It's fun to feel like you can contribute to fights and tank. But when you see your % of damage done consistently dropping every single gear upgrade it becomes demoralizing. Yeah you went up +10 dps and some hp. The dps just shot up another 200 dps this same tier and your performance starts to matter less and less and less.