Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[Sipherous]

Its not a problem if a Tank uses their tanking stance to build aggro before going into DPS stance. I did it fine when first starting out and with my raid group rocked the i270 slaying and pulled in sword. You cant avoid you enimity combo, you trade dmg for extra enimity so be it, DPS is youyr tertiary job as a tank (I am guilty of being a greedy fuck mind you) Ideally each tank should rotate one hate combo after dropping their tank stance after their burst phase. During pull useing 2 hate combos will normally keep you well out of reach of any DPS including Sam. the net loss is minimal overall. Also after the VIT changes in 3.2 keeping hate was harder because the VIT+ STR scaling nerfed out total output by 10% from when we wore full slaying. This is roughly comparable to that but is a straight increase overall.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

2 STR difference between i320 and i340 is a sick joke. SE clearly does not understand this issue, at all.

We're inevitably going to get Fending accessories as a drop, and the raid is going to be sorely disappointed. This is THE issue.

[BlackironTarkus]

Sipherous. You misunderstand.

If this keeps as it is, you will eventually never be able to hold aggro even sitting in tank stance and spamming aggro combo.

For every 10 str we gain on side, dps gain 35. Eventually you can't hold hate to begin with unless se wants to buff our aggro output every other patch.

[Reynhart]

The issue I raised before where eventually with enough time if nothing is changed we could have dps with 1k, 2k, 3k higher attack power than a tank and it will require constant enmity patching has been delayed by 2 patches tops.

Not necessarily. It's easy to make the gap between tank and DPS higher and higher while still being under the top enmity we can generate.
Between all the enmity bonuses, it's easy for tanks to generate at least three times the enmity of their damage. So, if we have 2k AP and the DPS have 5k, they'll indeed have 3k more than us, but, we'll still generate enmity "as if" we had 6k AP.

What we'll see with this scaling is more and more tank stance required just to keep enmity...which is probably one the reason they changed accessories.

For every 10 str we gain on side, dps gain 35. Eventually you can't hold hate to begin with unless se wants to buff our aggro output every other patch.

Did you take materia melding into account ? And remember that for each STR point we gain on the left side, DPS only gain 1 STR too.

[BlackironTarkus]

This is true but all this does is drive tanks away. It's fun to feel like you can contribute to fights and tank. But when you see your % of damage done consistently dropping every single gear upgrade it becomes demoralizing. Yeah you went up +10 dps and some hp. The dps just shot up another 200 dps this same tier and your performance starts to matter less and less and less.

[TankHunter678]

Tanks should be more then a convenient meatshield that makes mobs look at them instead of you.

[BlackironTarkus]

Static increases do not change scaling, only delay it. The difference doesn't matter now. But it will. All 6 pieces of left side increase the same, but on right side there's a scaling difference. I'll make some graphs later when I get home to better illustrate this but what it boils down to right now is that flat numbers look good and minimize the look of a problem, but the do accessories get slightly better than tank ones every patch. Then slightly better again. Then slightly better again.

[Reynhart]

The dps just shot up another 200 dps this same tier and your performance starts to matter less and less and less.

I still don't understand that. Are DPS demoralized when they see our defense skyrocket ? Are they demoralized by seeing the gap in HP increase more and more ?

And no, your performance still matters a lot, because if you don't know how to properly do your rotation, you'll risk losing aggro and killing all the raid, or building too much enmity and crippling your damage output...and you're still the one holding the boss so that it doesn't curb-stomp every paper-DPS in seconds. How is that "not contributing" ?

Then slightly better again. Then slightly better again.

Enmity wise, our left side will be slighty better then theirs. Then slightly better again. Then slightly better again...

[Kabooa]

By no stretch of the imagination will DPS accessories provide 1k, 2k, or 3k attack power over a tank during this patch cycle.

[BlackironTarkus]

When dps start doing 2x or 3x of a tank the tank maximizing damage doesn't matter in the slightest.

It will be the tanks job to survive Busters and spam aggro combo.

Right now a tank maximizing is very noticeable because we're only 30 percent behind and its a good spot to be in. Eventually dps will be doing 6 to 8k dps each and tanks will still be sitting at 3k. Suddenly the diff between a top 10 tank and a middle of the road one is smaller and smaller as time passes until you can get 1 percent more damage by having said top 10 play tank or 10 percent more raid damage by having same player play a dps.

You start to put your worst players in the tank role because learning CDs and standing where they're told to stand is easy

All of this gets worse the more time passes that we only increase in output at a fraction of the rate a dps does.