"Pull Everything" in Dungeon Parties

[Kosmos992k]

My sig says all I want to about speed runs.

Fundamentally, the player who is going to be smacked in the face by every enemy in the dungeon has the right to decide how many enemies they wish to have slapping them at one time. In other words, the tank gets to choose the size of pull that they are comfortable with, not the DPS, not the healer, not the commentator on Reddit or the official forums, nope, just the tank, because the tank will be the one getting hit by everything. You want the dungeon to go fast, kill everything quickly and move with the tank. Trying to ignore the tank's willingness to pull large or not will not speed up the run.

[Laladyn]

My sig says all I want to about speed runs.

Fundamentally, the player who is going to be smacked in the face by every enemy in the dungeon has the right to decide how many enemies they wish to have slapping them at one time. In other words, the tank gets to choose the size of pull that they are comfortable with, not the DPS, not the healer, not the commentator on Reddit or the official forums, nope, just the tank, because the tank will be the one getting hit by everything. You want the dungeon to go fast, kill everything quickly and move with the tank. Trying to ignore the tank's willingness to pull large or not will not speed up the run.

No just no.

[phishstix]

In the end, people who get tired of people pulling for them will run with their fc mates and avoid randoms entirely, along with the other tanks. It's BECAUSE randoms like to butt heads with the tank that I rarely want to tank outside of helping my fc mates. And im sure it's the same for others.

If you guys cannot compromise with the tank somehow then this will always be something that is a problem.

[Kosmos992k]

No just no.

Yes, just yes. If you don't like it then you're welcome to rage-quit and wait again.

In the end, people who get tired of people pulling for them will run with their fc mates and avoid randoms entirely, along with the other tanks. It's BECAUSE randoms like to butt heads with the tank that I rarely want to tank outside of helping my fc mates. And im sure it's the same for others.

If you guys cannot compromise with the tank somehow then this will always be something that is a problem.

Indeed. People wonder why the statistics show lots of people level tank but they are still massively short of what is needed in DF, the above comment explains why.

[Laladyn]

Yes, just yes. If you don't like it then you're welcome to rage-quit and wait again.

I just disagree with you because the faulty logic you use shows there is no point in getting into any sensible discussion with you. You just whant all the things how you think they are right or how its comforting you, youll never change your opinion even if your wrong, youll definitly get totally smoothly throu life with this attitude so ill just leave you with it. Good luck.

[bswpayton]

my motto is from Sastasha to the level 70 dungeons pull as much as you can, as a healer this is awuful but ive killed more tanks on small pulls than big ones from not paying attention , small pulls are just boring point blank, by level 70 unless its a hard hittin add no tank should be still pullin three adds

[hijifa]

Meh. I wasn't going to reply to this thread because the toxicity and self entitlement are insane, but the vocal minority really need to understand something. Long reply coming.

People like you are the problem.

Nowhere in the terms of service does it explicitly state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. Nowhere in the tutorial of the game, during any quest, UI element, or any other form of information in the game does it state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. This is something made up by a few entitled individuals who think they are God's gift to the player base just because they are playing a tank.

News flash: pressing Flash and 1-2-3 is not hard. You are no better than anyone else just because you have a blue icon. Your JOB is to protect the group, not get primadonna on everyone and go diva mode. If someone pulls? Sure you might be upset, but they are probably doing it for a reason. You are slow and inadequate and need to pick up the pace. Or maybe people just find bigger pulls more fun and exciting because it adds stress to the otherwise incredibly mundane situation. Some people like to push their limits because that is how you get BETTER. Just because you get your feelings hurt does not mean it gives you the right to NOT DO YOUR JOB. This is real life. As you say, man up and suck it up. Without DPS you don't get far in dungeons either because you still need to kill things. Without healers you won't survive long because you still need to live to win fights. Your role is important, but not more important than others.

But something to think about: "I won't tank because someone else pulled." That IS against terms of service and is a reportable offense, which I will report someone for 10/10 times. I'm so sick of this "You should bow down to my will or else" attitude and you know what? I'm glad GMs punish people like that. They punish people like you because no matter what, you are not allowed to just sit there and refuse to do your job and contribute. This is a MMO. It's a team game built around cooperation. You are refusing to cooperate out of spite because you think you are better than others and you adhere to this unwritten rule that a few entitled individuals like you feel should be enforced because reasons. You are not better than others. If someone pulls extra and it's a problem? Fine. Do your job, then after ask them to stop. They do it again? That is what the vote kick feature is for. Deliberately wasting other peoples' time because you got your feelings hurt is not acceptable anywhere. The fact that there are people who agree with that behavior is disgusting.

Stop thinking your time is more precious than others just because you are a tank. It's not. We have roles and jobs for a reason, everyone is equally important in groups. And guess what? As a tank you ARE REPLACEABLE. Especially in higher end content. I would suggest you take that "I matter more than you and therefore you should do everything I want or else" attitude elsewhere because entitlement won't get you very far in life.

You talk about respect but you clearly don't respect others. Respect is a two way street. You want people to respect you? Respect their time as well. If the healer is good and can heal big pulls, and the DPS is good and clearly shreds mobs VERY fast, then why be opposed to pulling more out of principle other than to have some artificial power over people and go "I'm the tank you do what I want or else"?

From a tank's perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's a challenge holding everything, protecting my group, and staying alive during the process. Plus if you can handle it, people are more likely to go "holy crap what a badass"

From a healer's perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's fun and engaging to find ways to mitigate the damage, DPS, and keep the tank upright at the same time. If you can handle it, people are more likely to go "holy crap this healer is a goddess"

From a DPS' perspective: I love big pulls. The bigger the better. It's just fun blowing stuff up. There is something more inherently satisfying Flaring 10 mobs and setting the world on fire than just beating on 2 with Fire.

Not everyone pulls more because "mah time". A lot of people pull more because they want something fun and engaging to do, and big pulls force you to pay attention. Baby pulls are mundane and people tend to just go auto pilot and do the bare minimum effort. If you have any respect for others, you would consider that also the next time you want to go "I'm better than thou" and refuse to tank. You are not the only person in the group. There are 3, 7, or 23 others to consider as well. If you are truly uncomfortable with more than the bare minimum and are a spiteful person, then maybe playing a tank isn't for you. Your job is to protect the group no matter what, including deliberate extra pulling or even accidental aggro. Same as healers who refuse to heal. It's still their job to protect the group.

Instead of going scorched earth and deliberately not doing your job, most of the problems can be solved at the very beginning of the dungeon by simply asking "do you guys prefer big pulls or small pulls?" Then if you still have someone who pulls big after everyone else said small, finish out that pull then vote kick them. Because it was already established at the start, the vote kick will go through almost every time. THAT is how the situation should be handled.

If I see a tank (or healer) refusing to do their job, I will GM them every time. It might be funny to you to let others die and refuse to contribute, but it's more funny to me to watch you get punished by a GM for doing so, up to and including getting banned if this is a normal behavior and you have been reported multiple times for doing it. For diva tanks out there, you might want to keep that in mind. There are players who don't worship the ground you walk on just because you happen to be a tank that instance. So stop acting like they should.

Lol.. you are the only one thats being entitled here.

Do you think the tank is deliberately wasting peoples time? Do you think he is purposely wasting his own time? You realise that running these dungeons over and over again is just as tedious for him as it is for you right?

So why do some tanks pull slow? Its easy, because they aren't comfortable with the dungeon, or new etc...

So YOU, should get off your high horse, and stop thinking that everyone is at elite as you, and let them pull as they want, because they aren't good, or didn't play that dungeon much before.
Maybe you are on auto pilot mode all the time, but they might be "struggling" there if they are new, even with small pulls.

SO..

1. Respect the tanks decision to go slow, as he is most likely new.
2. Even though some one else pulled the mobs, the tank should still pick up the mobs, as you said, if he doesn't he isn't doing his job.
3. If you don't respect him, he will not respect you, nuff said. If he chooses to let you die, this is you being disrespectful to him first.

PS This all goes down the drain if the tank is not new, and is PURPOSELY going slow for no reason except him being lazy. This is going to be a bad experience as he is also probably the type of tank you mentioned, who is very self entitled...

[Roegan]

I just disagree with you because the faulty logic you use shows there is no point in getting into any sensible discussion with you. You just whant all the things how you think they are right or how its comforting you, youll never change your opinion even if your wrong, youll definitly get totally smoothly throu life with this attitude so ill just leave you with it. Good luck.

Bit of an over reaction they barely said anything, and you've just gone on a character assassination because of ONE line!
Tanks do set the pace. I mean, if you wanna go slow but they wanna go fast, you're screwed! You can't stop a tank going fast, the only difference is you can somewhat make a slow tank go faster via pulling for them but that rarely goes to the persons favour (as sseen by all the tanks in this thread saying they just let people die). Therefore one can only conclude that basically, generally speaking, tanks tend to set the pace for the dungeon.

[Kosmos992k]

I just disagree with you because the faulty logic you use shows there is no point in getting into any sensible discussion with you. You just whant all the things how you think they are right or how its comforting you, youll never change your opinion even if your wrong, youll definitly get totally smoothly throu life with this attitude so ill just leave you with it. Good luck.

Where did I say I want all the things how I think they are right or whatever? I simply said that the player who's role it is to do a specific job should be the player who decides how they do it. Perhaps we should all start offering unsolicited advice to others on how to play their role when we are not? I am certain that will go down like a ton of bricks.

You say I'll have a problem getting through life alright because I take account of how the people who's role it is to do something want it to be done. You on the other hand would tell other what to do and how to do it despite it being their role, not yours, guess who has more trouble interacting with others.

Quite apart from anything else, You know nothing of me, so I'll thank you to keep your pre-judging to yourself.

Bit of an over reaction they barely said anything, and you've just gone on a character assassination because of ONE line!
Tanks do set the pace. I mean, if you wanna go slow but they wanna go fast, you're screwed! You can't stop a tank going fast, the only difference is you can somewhat make a slow tank go faster via pulling for them but that rarely goes to the persons favour (as sseen by all the tanks in this thread saying they just let people die). Therefore one can only conclude that basically, generally speaking, tanks tend to set the pace for the dungeon.

I don't think I have ever let a person die on purpose while tanking. If someone pulls for me, I will ask them politely not to. I won't change my pace at that point because to be honest, I find it rude that they do that. If people ask for a faster pace I will oblige, but for me, I dislike pulling more than a couple of groups unless I am certain that the DPS is up to it. I don't like that kind of pull, it's chaotic and removes all strategy since it's me flashing my pants off and the DPS Zerging the pack with AoEs, I find that to be incredibly boring. Tanks do tend to set the pace, it's a function of the role, it's not something that tank players specifically demand to decide, it just is how it is.

[Faliandra]

Indeed. People wonder why the statistics show lots of people level tank but they are still massively short of what is needed in DF, the above comment explains why.

oh yeah, I have all my tanks at 60 and my pld will be at 70 soon. At some point,ill get drk and war to 70 too. And you know what? I wont really use them for roulettes.
And its not because of possible DF harassment...or else I wouldnt be maining healers lol. I just level every class, but I play what I enjoy most.

many people have all classes lvled.
there goes your logic.