The Raid community as we know it

[Kyt]

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If a raid leader is actually saying something like "who is the idiot who keeps missing the soak", that raid leader needs to be stripped of whatever officer position he has because it is INCREDIBLY easy to tell exactly who is fucking up what. That's a BAD raid leader, not a high level toxic raid leader. It is NOT bad for me to say "hey xxx, you screwed up moving out of the puddles 3 times in a row now and killed other people each time as a result, you really need to pick it up or I will be replacing you in the next few attempts". It's also NOT bad for a group of 8 close friends to say things like "god you're such a fucking retard xxx" which is exactly what Xeno and his group do. If you join a group like that and you're the odd man out who didn't realize that that's how the group is run, that's definitely on you and not them.

[Eli85]

If a raid leader is actually saying something like "who is the idiot who keeps missing the soak", that raid leader needs to be stripped of whatever officer position he has because it is INCREDIBLY easy to tell exactly who is fucking up what. That's a BAD raid leader, not a high level toxic raid leader. It is NOT bad for me to say "hey xxx, you screwed up moving out of the puddles 3 times in a row now and killed other people each time as a result, you really need to pick it up or I will be replacing you in the next few attempts". It's also NOT bad for a group of 8 close friends to say things like "god you're such a fucking retard xxx" which is exactly what Xeno and his group do. If you join a group like that and you're the odd man out who didn't realize thatR that's how the group is run, that's definitely on you and not them.

Re: the soak. Pay less attention to the 'dur the raid leader is dumb' and take more into account the tone, the language, the broad stroking that the comment implies. Change it to, if you want, to "X why is it so hard for you to do a simple mechanic like soak?!" Still aggressive, hostile, and in my opinion, unacceptable.

There is nothing wrong with what I've bolded, provided it is delivered in a mature, respectful tone. However, your last quote, that is completely unacceptable in any situation, and is, in my opinion, why a lot of players who are more than capable of raiding, choose not to. The reality is, far more groups engage in that unacceptable behaviour. I mean, would you really call someone a bleeping bleep in a public space? On a bus? In a coffee shop? And not have people turn around wondering what is wrong with you? If someone ever says that to me in real life, I bid them adieu. There is no place in our society for those kinds of comments.

[Kyt]

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If that's how people talk to each other, then that's how they talk to each other. It's not your right to dictate how people talk to each other. Some people actually just talk like that. My last quote is not unacceptable in a static where that is the preferred type of communication, and I'll stop you now before you say "that type of communication is not preferred by anyone in the world", because it quite obviously is. Me? no, I don't lead my raids like that. But it obviously works for people who are like that example being xeno and his group who are all close friends. It's not your right to tell them that how they do things is wrong.

[Eli85]

If that's how people talk to each other, then that's how they talk to each other. It's not your right to dictate how people talk to each other. Some people actually just talk like that. My last quote is not unacceptable in a static where that is the preferred type of communication, and I'll stop you now before you say "that type of communication is not preferred by anyone in the world", because it quite obviously is. Me? no, I don't lead my raids like that. But it obviously works for people who are like that example being xeno and his group who are all close friends. It's not your right to tell them that how they do things is wrong.

Rules of polite, civilized society demands that it is unacceptable. Though when people log on a game, get that veil of anonymity, they start to behave poorly. Some people dig that, fine, that's them--but the rest of us, it makes us uncomfortable, and drives us away from otherwise enjoyable content. I miss high level raiding, I really do, but the toxic environment, the hostility, the aggression, those aren't worth it to me, and I really don't think I'm the only one.

Raiding thrives on participation. Raiding will die out when participation levels drop too much. So why the raiding community is OK with ostracizing potential players is really baffling.