The Raid community as we know it

[Eli85]

Firstly, taking a position of authority on a topic you're debating is literally the first thing they teach you not to do in debate, so you should cool it with your little "snippy" edit, cause it makes absolutely zero sense. How many shitty super old teachers are there? Oh yeah, tons. Successful raid groups are not typically revolving doors. For over an entire year I kept 39 other members completely static in WoW vanilla with very few absences. I've also been in carebear statics that have members leave every week. Potential raiders have every opportunity to create their own groups that coincide with their own style of raiding. They also have all the opportunity in the world to search for an external group. If you are in a raid group and you don't like how it's lead you can leave. It's as simple as that.

It makes complete sense. You are debating with the way people learn with someone's whose job is to teach people. It is incredibly valid. It's like going up to a theoretical physicist (while you yourself have no formal physics training) and you deny the existence of black holes for reasons. You really wouldn't do this--and if you did, you'd only look the fool. As for as bad teachers? Sure, there's bad teachers. There's bad everything in their profession. But is it because a lack of knowledge? Probably not; they know how to teach, but are too lazy / can't be arsed to do it properly, and are thus bad. But, they still have all that formal training and knowledge.

As to your other point, I have fully acknowledged that I am not speaking to every single case. There are--what I will call toxic raid groups--that do not have attendance problems. But there are many that do, and there are enough of us complaining about this culture that it is more than just one or two bad apples.

Now what is raiding's biggest problem? Lack of participation. We already know Savage completion rates in Heavensward were really low, and I don't think anyone is expecting much to change in Stormblood. Now normal is queuable, great, that'll boost up those numbers. But if you took out normal, and raiding is simply "savage," well, there aren't enough in that community to prop it up. The math just doesn't work out. I'm not saying the lack of positive, respectful atmospheres is the sole reason for it, but I believe it is a strong, contributing reason. At the end of the day, when I'm in my leisure time, the last thing I want is to hear some blowhard yelling because he doesn't know how to teach and encourage good play. I'm not alone in this, either.

To be fair, while this approach may work on average, you have to consider the group dynamic. All players and their respective attitudes are not equal. Some people not only prefer but actively improve in an openly blunt environment. What you may call "toxic," they call "honesty." As for the frequency in turn around. It's disingenuous to attribute bullying as the sole factor. Being blunt myself, many people simply lack the skills to clear Savage but don't like hearing it. This is why the term "elitism" has lost all meaning. You are more likely to be accused of said elitism for merely offering advice than for sticking your nose up at those "filthy casuals." And that petty attitude isn't reserved for the hardcore mindset either. I know someone who intentionally refuses to heal tanks wearing 270 Slaying accessories regardless of their capabilities. Why? They hate the supposed "meta" so much, they have unintentionally become just as petty as the so called elitists.

Something worth keeping in mind is players who openly insult one another may still have an overall positive atmosphere. They simply go around it a different way. To use Xeno as an example, you'll have half as many people talking about how chill and helpful he's been while others hate him. Ask his opinion about his static members though and he'll gush over all of them. Basically, it works for him and people with similar mindsets.

First, there is nothing wrong with being blunt. I can be very blunt myself. It's all the way you go about it. You can respectfully ask, "Why did you not soak at blah blah?" Blunt, straight to the point, and the player will feel very comfortable asking. Versus, "Who is the idiot who keeps missing the soak and wasting people's time?" Even without tone, you can easily tell this creates a very uncomfortable environment that is not conducive to learning and encouraging good play.

I completely disagree with insults can create a positive atmosphere. The second you throw out an insult--whether it is in jest or not--you instantly create an uncomfortable and hostile environment. There is absolutely no reason to be insulting to another player. If you can't say it in a warm, respectful way, don't queue up the mic.

As a general note: these are my personal feelings as to why I don't raid competitively anymore. It's not a broad indictment on raiding as a whole, but it's also why I believe raiding participation numbers are down. I simply believe that many players do not want to be in aggressive, hostile environments that unfortunately run rampant in Savage. Sure, you can find groups that aren't like that, but experience tells me there are many like that.