Halve mana on stance swap

[whiskeybravo]

While I agree that you see those, generally those are included in lists of all changes. With the key one being the removal of losing gauge and not having unchained/IB on shared cooldown. While those might be small dps increases (very small) then would make the class more enjoyable to play (or at least in my opinion it would).

As someone who was a ARR, HW and now SB WAR that is what I would like the most.

But those are the biggest changes that could be made. Outside of just buffing potencies. War would be able to ignore damage penalty while building threat then switch to dps stance with no penalty or cost whatsoever. That's a huge boost. Not only that, it would really eliminate any choices you'd have to make. Lack of choices generally equals stagnant gameplay.

I too have been war tanking since days of first coil. All tanks in fact. I liked warrior a bit more because it's an offensive-based tank, but I never hesitated to switch to pld or drk if it was better for a particular fight. Though admittedly I was never all that good at drk, since I didn't spend nearly as much time on it as I did with pld and war.

[AdamZ]

But those are the biggest changes that could be made. Outside of just buffing potencies. War would be able to ignore damage penalty while building threat then switch to dps stance with no penalty or cost whatsoever. That's a huge boost. Not only that, it would really eliminate any choices you'd have to make. Lack of choices generally equals stagnant gameplay.

It is really not that big of a boost from a meta point of view. Pally will still have greater DPS and utility, meaning it is still not that unlikely we will see double pally in the world first race. Sure without DRK buffs to DPS it likely makes WAR>DRK, but I am for DRK buffs.

Opening in tank stance with unchained is really just a quality of life thing, so you can do it in pug/more causal setting. As any speed kill, or if progression hits a enrage wall, will have the tanks open in dps stance. Same with the halving of the gauge. In theory WAR's will just be pushing to be in dps stance full fight, never needing the switch. Basically optimal WAR dps is tied to the skills of your group more then ever, adjusting for what I said just allows for a bit of separation.

[YitharV2]

But those are the biggest changes that could be made. Outside of just buffing potencies. War would be able to ignore damage penalty while building threat then switch to dps stance with no penalty or cost whatsoever. That's a huge boost. Not only that, it would really eliminate any choices you'd have to make. Lack of choices generally equals stagnant gameplay.

I'm for Unchained being separated from Inner Release, but meta wise, Unchained is actually a DPS loss. What the meta groups would do is have the WAR open with Tomahawk+Equilibrium while having a NIN use Shadewalker. Unchained is good for pugs though.

[whiskeybravo]

I'm for Unchained being separated from Inner Release, but meta wise, Unchained is actually a DPS loss. What the meta groups would do is have the WAR open with Tomahawk+Equilibrium while having a NIN use Shadewalker. Unchained is good for pugs though.

It's a dps loss when you can just jump through a hoop of fire on one leg while balancing 3 glasses of milk and an egg on your forehead instead.

I still think unchained is a strong cd, no other tank can ignore their tank stance damage penalty. If top end meta players aren't going to use unchained anyways, then it's basically just a QOL change for those of us in the middle. I mean I'm not saying I'd be pissed or happy if they do or don't change it, literally makes no difference to me. I just see it leading to more convoluted technique finagling if they both reduced/eliminated the cost of swapping stances and untied IR/Unchained. And it provides further incentive to tank in deliverance as much as possible which I think is the exact opposite direction the devs intended by the changes.

[AdamZ]

I still think unchained is a strong cd, no other tank can ignore their tank stance damage penalty.

And it provides further incentive to tank in deliverance as much as possible which I think is the exact opposite direction the devs intended by the changes.

I would actually disagree with this statement now. This was true in 2.0 and 3.0, but for 4.0 consider the case of WAR and Pally. For a similar amount of time that WAR has access to unchained (20 seconds every 2 min), Pally has Requiescat, Holy Spam in tank stance. (24 seconds every 2 min) The 20% buff actually outweighs the 15% damage reduction. So you are basically getting the 24 seconds of 450 potency attacks. This is much less then the WAR Unchain buff which would just remove the damage down from tank stance, on a average combo potency of only 197.

Requiescat, Holy Spam is comparable to WAR Fell rotations, but WAR can only access these in dps stance (which is kind of the big problem people raise with WAR design when now balancing to the other two).

WAR have ALL the reason now to only ever tank/be in deliverance....

I really have no idea where you are going with these, or if you understand the job. We basically said, "we want these for QoL", you said "all you want is dps increase", then we explained them, and you are like "all it is, is QoL"....... well yes.....

[whiskeybravo]

I really have no idea where you are going with these, or if you understand the job. We basically said, "we want these for QoL", you said "all you want is dps increase", then we explained them, and you are like "all it is, is QoL"....... well yes.....

That's probably because I have my own internal confusions about how I feel on the whole mess myself lol

On one hand, I don't really care what they change. I'm going to play the way I play either way, just as I am now. On the other hand, I understand completely the concept and purpose of the dps-meta tanking, I just don't agree with it. It feels inherently wrong to me for some reason. I worked extremely hard maximizing my dps on dragoon, an actual strength and dps based job. The only way you push tank dps is by causing undue stress on other party members, specifically healers. It's fine in a group setting, nothing wrong with it at all if everyone agrees, but it shouldn't be the "norm" in my opinion. The reason I quit tanking in HW was because I was not about to drop millions on crafted accessories, force my healers to stress over my squishy ass, or beg monks and drgs to pass on their accessory drops so I could equip them. It's silly for many reasons (in my opinion). So if I can be a voice against that then I will be.

I guess I'm also mystified (but not really) that some people, including myself, can look at the changes and say "I can make this work". While others look at the exact same changes and scream how broken it all is. It's kind of like, 10 years ago you bought a game and played it the way it was. Now you buy a game and if you don't like it you flock to the devs and demand they change it to suit what you want. :/

So yea, if I come off as inconsistent those are some reasons why. But, we are also allowed to change our minds right? (or be proven wrong?)