Halve mana on stance swap

[Lyth]

...

This actually sounds like a pretty interesting deal. The caveat to this is that, analogous to WAR, Grit's activation cost should be half of your present MP total. I'll also gladly accept your proposed oGCD MP restoration ability that gives 4920 MP on demand and has a 60 second recast, where the recast is shortened by 5 seconds for every Bloodspiller used. I'll even let you keep the oGCD stance swap, because I'm such a nice and friendly rabbit without ulterior motives.

DRK has had the most severe stance dancing penalty of any tank for the past two years. Grit is GCD and costs a flat 18% or so of your MP, and you only recover MP on your second combo hit. If you don't have the required MP for Grit, you're locked out. Under your system, any swap done at less than 36% Max MP is a strict dps gain over the present system, and if you stance dance less than once per minute, simply having access to an Infuriate equivalent makes the change a strict net gain at any MP level. I'm sure that any DRKs looking at this have probably figured out the workaround. Juggling and manipulating resources is on DRK is a bit of an art-form, you see. A... Dark Art, if you will.

I'll also accept your proposed change to Plunge, of course assuming that it offers the same potency per unit cost as the WAR equivalent. Bloodspiller is 191 potency for 50 blood outside of Grit (3.82 potency/blood) and 172 potency for 50 blood in Grit (3.44 potency/blood). At your suggested equivalency rate, this new 15 second recast gap closer is 5 potency/blood, which is still a strict dps gain over Bloodspiller. It's kind of funny to see the WAR forum community here collectively dismiss a utility move that, even without being under the effects of Berserk and/or Inner Release, is still more potency efficient than DRK's signature 'high damage' move.

An on-demand gap closer is worth its weight in gold. SAM has a very similar deal to what WAR does in this regard (they also have a gap extender that works on the same concept, I kind of want this too. Yes? Yes.). I'm yet to see some actual complaints from the SAM community from this, but I think that's due to the fact that most melee dps players have a far, far better understanding of the importance of uptime than your average tank. Studying exceptional tanks only teaches you so much. Study exceptional melee dps to really learn how to push your gameplay as a tank. So many ways to put these sort of tools to use.

I sometimes wonder if newly-minted WAR mains were taught any sort of resource management in HW. Back in my day, dropping Defiance cost you all of your resource gauge. Sometimes when you make suggestions about a job that you aren't quite knowledgeable about, intended "nerfs" end up being buffs, especially when said job is both relatively underpowered and relatively complex. Oh, and by the way, if you want tanks to be unable to heal outside of tank stance, you're also going to have to remove the lifesteal from Storm's Path and lock Thrill of Battle behind Defiance as well. Sorry about that.

[SyzzleSpark]

I think that's due to the fact that most melee dps players have a far, far better understanding of the importance of uptime than your average tank. Studying exceptional tanks only teaches you so much. Study exceptional melee dps to really learn how to push your gameplay as a tank. So many ways to put these sort of tools to use.

This is why I thank my lucky stars that I'm a former DRG main instead of a former tank main. I think it made me a much better player and tank in spite of the dps-jumping-ship-to-drk-because-it-looks-cool stereotype.

[AdamZ]

Oh, and by the way, if you want tanks to be unable to heal outside of tank stance, you're also going to have to remove the lifesteal from Storm's Path and lock Thrill of Battle behind Defiance as well. Sorry about that.

Do I get a 360 potency combo finisher then, and add a dot to storm paths? (or the second hit in my combo almost equal to my now standard 3rd hit of storms path?) I will agree then

On a different note I will now be creating a macro to spam "to create more engaging gameplay" Thank you P4X0R10N

[Tegernako]

Also P4X0R10N, can I like steal your entire thread for usage elsewhere?

[bswpayton]

I\\'m suggesting that darks and paladins lose half mana on stance swap. Just to be fair since wars lose half beast guage on swap and our defensive, ib, and offensive, fc, abilities both tied to it.

.

Naww bruh
leave pali alone

[VenKitsune]

honestly? i think that loosing half your beast gauge upon switching is one of the major balancing factors with warrior. its designed so that you have to dump all your gauge before switching so you actually need to know the fight instead of being "ooops i need to be in tank stance now, let me just use my oGCD swap". This being said however, i do think that when you swap it should take half away BUT round it up or down to the closest multiple of ten.

[Tegernako]

honestly? i think that loosing half your beast gauge upon switching is one of the major balancing factors with warrior. its designed so that you have to dump all your gauge before switching so you actually need to know the fight instead of being "ooops i need to be in tank stance now, let me just use my oGCD swap".

Which is a dumb argument to make because no other tank operates this way.

It's a dumb, clunky, and un-fun mechanic. It doesn't balance shite because WAR isn't OP nor would being able to switch stances freely make it OP. it's overly punishing to the most gauge dependent class in the entire game for no good reason.

It's hilarious how you think being able to swap stances on the fly to use an IB for instance would break the class somehow. It's no frigging different or more "OP" then PLD using it's like 7 on demand CD's or it's on demand healing no matter the stance.

How does clemency being able to be used in sword reward learning a fight?

By your very logic, it doesn't. But I don't see you putting up arguments for that. Why is sentinal able to be used in Sword? It's a highly defensive action, lock it behind the tank stance where it makes sense to have it. Why can I use Sheltron in sword oath? Makes zero sense for a defensive action to be used in the dps stance, it just rewards bad gameplay and makes people lazy. And self heals at any time in any stance? Take that crap out, healing is not a offensive action and it just rewards people for screwing up because they know they can ignore mechanics.

[whiskeybravo]

It's hilarious how you think being able to swap stances on the fly to use an IB for instance would break the class somehow. It's no frigging different or more "OP" then PLD using it's like 7 on demand CD's or it's on demand healing no matter the stance.

Not claiming that war would be "broken", but that allows for more uptime and damage dealing in Deliverance.

I stand by the opinion that if everything else was the same but PLD and War DPS logs were swapped the only thing we'd hear on the forums is crickets chirping.

[Tegernako]

but that allows for more uptime and damage dealing in Deliverance.

And this is somehow different from DRK and PLD how when playing efficiently?

I stand by the opinion that if everything else was the same but PLD and War DPS logs were swapped the only thing we'd hear on the forums is crickets chirping.

And I stand by you being wrong because many people enjoyed how WAR played. Not just damage. I choose WAR because I was scared of dying so I picked not only a tank but one that people told me had good self healing. That is literally the reason why I ended up with WAR. I stayed with it because it was amazing fun to play.

I am not a great player. I barely hit top 20% of WAR players. I played because it was fun more then anything and because I was useful to the team in various ways.

You're welcome to believe that the majority only care about DPS.

You're just going to end up wrong because most people play for fun and do not follow a meta. It goes without saying that the majority of people who play a class do it because they enjoy it. It's only a minority that play a class only for meta reasons.

This same reasoning applies to, I would argue virtually every single game in existence. Playing for fun will always be more important.

[whiskeybravo]

And I stand by you being wrong because many people enjoyed how WAR played.

Literally thousands of people switched to War during HW, was that because they suddenly realized how awesome and fun it was to play? Hardly.

I could be wrong, I'd even like to think that I would be. But nearly every suggestion on here ties back to increasing warrior dps in some fashion.

And I'm not trying to suggest that people only care about their dps, I'm simply suggesting that if dps was higher a lot of current war issues would be overlooked.