Silly tank melds

[KalinOrthos]

Just like tank stance is a bigger loss than the gain it gives healers.

Okay, I know you have more to your post than this, but...I'm sorry, what? Are you just trolling at this point? Why would you ever, EVER recommend all players stance dance? I can barely handle Exdeath's normal damage in tank stance, why would I even think about stance dancing while I have him, and that's with gearing Tenacity, rotating cooldowns, Sheltron-ing Thunder 3, Clemency when necessary... Like, I get stance dancing while off tanking, and I do this, but when I have the boss, why take the ability to reduce the damage you take away? For the extra autoattack damage? Are you high?

[dragonseth07]

Okay, I know you have more to your post than this, but...I'm sorry, what? Are you just trolling at this point? Why would you ever, EVER recommend all players stance dance? I can barely handle Exdeath's normal damage in tank stance, why would I even think about stance dancing while I have him, and that's with gearing Tenacity, rotating cooldowns, Sheltron-ing Thunder 3, Clemency when necessary... Like, I get stance dancing while off tanking, and I do this, but when I have the boss, why take the ability to reduce the damage you take away? For the extra autoattack damage? Are you high?

I'm referring to back in HW where you definitely dropped tank stance after establishing hate on many bosses. The meta for SB hasn't solidified, so it very well may not be the case this expac, but it definitely was in HW.

From dungeons to raids, perfecting tanking a boss involved minimizing time in tank stance.

Edit: If you're actually brand new like your join date says, you wouldn't be familiar with it. I apologize. The tank meta previously was to (generally) drop tank stance after 1 or 2 hate combos and go into your opener. It wasn't quite that simple, with Unchained pulls and early vokes, but the gist is that you attempted to minimize time in tank stance because the loss in your damage was greater than the gain in damage healers received from you needing less healing.

Naturally, this didn't work when you or the healer were undergeared or unfamiliar with a fight.

[Evumeimei]

Your fun ends where others begins. For content such as dungeons and even to an extent EX primals, you have some leeway and if you want to be a forever shield oath paladin or a fist of wind monk, you can probably get away with it and no one will really mind.

But if we're wiping to enrage and your creative playstyle is a factor leading to that, then something has to give.

Let's be honest, pretty sure tank damage isn't the problem if a party is wiping to enrage. Look to the DPS first before the tanks and healers.

Just to clarify: I'm posting this with regards to tanks because this thread is about tank melds/dps.

[KalinOrthos]

.

I've been playing since the start of HW, but it was never anything more than casual, as back then, I was raiding in WoW. I'm just now starting to get deeper into the game as of late as, once my life finally calms down after my move, I want to slot myself into a static.

Because I come from WoW, I do have a more traditional philosophy on tanking, especially with how Blizzard has been handling tanking the past few expansions with active mitigation, or "do more to prevent more". That's why I like paladin so much, because it incentivizes use of Holy Spirit while tanking to give you more mitigation through Sheltron.

[Lewtskie]

Because I come from WoW, I do have a more traditional philosophy on tanking, especially with how Blizzard has been handling tanking the past few expansions with active mitigation, or "do more to prevent more". That's why I like paladin so much, because it incentivizes use of Holy Spirit while tanking to give you more mitigation through Sheltron.

Seen a couple old WoWers share some grievances in that; it's weird. 3.x tank really were just Bruisers more than Tanks, and the Tank Stance was treated more as just another mitigation c/d that you threw up for busters. The only one really with aggressive mitigation then was WAR with their sustain and that was better served through Deliverance. It's all different now, though.

[MrSmiley]

Seen a couple old WoWers share some grievances in that; it's weird. 3.x tank really were just Bruisers more than Tanks, and the Tank Stance was treated more as just another mitigation c/d that you threw up for busters. The only one really with aggressive mitigation then was WAR with their sustain and that was better served through Deliverance. It's all different now, though.

honestly, it feels the exact same with gimped damage, tanking got no more interesting or difficult other than usual undergeared shenanigans, just that we are now weaker but not any better or more interesting otherwise

[Voormund]

I don't really consider what other tanks meld or gear towards because I'm not playing with them and it doesn't effect me - but to willfully gear towards something that slows progress down for really no good reason doesn't make sense to me. Tenacity is, as of right now, not as bad as originally thought but also not worth the trade off in DPS. There are no fights that aren't survivable without it and most of the big damage in this game comes from predicable tankbusters and telegraphed nukes and is easily prepared for and mitigated. In a good group, everyone is trying their best to do their job most efficiently - part of playing the tank roll in this game means helping out with damage output - you're not expected to be topping other dedicated DD's but you shouldn't be willfully ignoring it either.

There's really no legitimately good reason to try to not do as much as you can if you are easily mitigating the boss damage and holding threat. Being extra tanky in a fight where you are safely surviving hits and your healer is not struggling gains you nothing. If people want to play like it's their decision and I don't really care as long as it doesn't effect me but I don't have a ton of time to play during the week and I value my time when I do play and wouldn't want to wasted because instead of doing the optimal thing someone decided they would rather prove a point than actually better help the group. Honestly this has to be the only MMO I've ever played where people get indignant (to the point of willfully doing the opposite of what is best out of spite) if you suggest there is a better way to do things. The object of raids is to kill the boss - most groups trying to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible - bringing overkill mitigation or enmity to the table doesn't really help accomplish that.

[Klongol]

snip

The condescending tone continues.

You've apparently not been paying attention in these alledged "other MMOs" you've played. There are plenty of people who don't dedicate the time and research needed to 100% optimize. They get what they think is good and go with it.

People have been commenting on the effectiveness of Tenacity like it's written in stone. Its not. Its been shown to be somewhat effective. And in less than 1 week it may change greatly.

Just... Get of your high horse. Your idea of "optimal" may not be someone else's idea of optimal. You might enjoy bigger numbers while others enjoy maxing out mitigation.

Meta be damned - if you can complete the content then that counts as a win, regardless if that win arrives at 7 mins in, or 6.

[Voormund]

.

Yea not to set your strawman on fire, but there's a world of difference between trying to optimize 100%, and just simply melding in a stat that is collectively believed to be slightly more useful than parry - I'm guessing there weren't a lot of people defending gearing for parry either? I don't optimize 100%, never claimed to, but I also take a least a little bit of time to see how I can get the most out of my gear to help the group before just slapping something on there and plugging my ears to what is realistically a better tradeoff. Tenacity is underwhelming as a main stat and doesn't scale nearly as well as Crit or DH (or even Det I believe) - you cannot argue that no matter how you feel on it's usefulness. In the long run - it is not going to be as effective without changes to the game. I'm not on a "high horse", I'm not claiming to be right all the time, but I would expect people to put at least the same amount of effort into trying to get the most out of their time as I do.

[EusisLandale]

just simply melding in a stat that is collectively believed to be slightly more useful than parry

"Collectively believed" doesn't mean a thing. Given otherwise identical gear and performance the difference between a full Direct Hit melded tank and a full Tenacity melded tank is going to be about .5%. 10-15 DPS.
That's going to be far less noticeable than cutting off an extra 2.8% damage taken.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...o_stat_values/