Is anyone else dying to get to Garlemald?

[YianKutku]

If they had not discovered magitek then they could very well have all perished or been wiped out completely.

circa 6A 800 - The Garleans are driven out of their original territory in southern Ilsabard and into the snowy northern lands. There, they discovered ceruleum, but used it mainly as a fuel source for warmth.

6A 922 - The Republic of Garlemald is born, after one town brought other smaller villages into the fold "through negotiation and force".

circa 6A 930 - The Garlean capital is raided by Hyurans from even further north. (Possibly Viking-analogues?)

6A 935 - Garlemald hires Roegadyn battle-mages from the mountain clans, and repels the raiders. They also stirred up trouble by "sending spies to incite conflict betwixt the surrounding nations".

6A 945 - The Roegadyn clans demand compensation for their services. Garlemald refuses. Negotiations break down (albeit after months), and the Roegadyn mercenaries leave.

6A 1513 - Brand new 24-year-old Legatus Solus Galvus learns of the newly-invented ceruleum engine, and focuses attention on it, leading to the development of magitek and its use in war.

6A 1515 - Garlemald "begins forcefully subjugating and annexing its neighbouring city-states".

6A 1517 - Garlemald first uses airships in war, conquering Dalmasca.

6A 1522 - Solus zos Galvus crowns himself Emperor.

So Garlemald survived as a nation for almost six hundred years (922-1513) without magitek. Their first major crisis putting them under threat of extinction was solved not through magitek, but by hiring mercenaries (which they then did not pay). Also, lots of spycraft.

If you described a country that survived almost six hundred years before expanding further as "could very well have all perished", I'm not sure what criteria of surviving is being used here.

(Source: Lorebook, pages 48-51 for the timeline, and 177 for the Garlemald background.)

[Klonoa7]

Garlemald's good points:

1. Technology
-Unlike everyone else on Hydaelyn that we've met, the Garleans are not afraid to embrace technology. Everybody else spurns the idea of using technology to improve their quality of life, but not Garlemald. Case and point: when visiting the Rising Stones, Nero comments on the lack of magitek, to which Tataru retorts she has a magitek kettle that Wedge made for her. There is nothing wrong at all with embracing technological advancement, but it should be done cautiously, and never for the sole purpose of gaining more power. There are a lot of things that can go wrong if you take it too far, like Hypertuned Grynewaht, and their insistence on emulating the Allagans (who destroyed themselves after decades of decadence thanks to their technology) isn't helping.

2. Pragmatism
-Garlemald looks at the world and sees it for what it is: a harsh, unforgiving place. To this end they give everything they do their all, because nothing else will do. The world is not sugar and rainbows, and another tomorrow is not cheaply bought.

3. *Meritocracy
-Every Garlean earned their station - each and every one. Nobody is given handouts; you have to earn your keep. Where you end up in society is dependent not on your birth as it is in most of Eorzea, but by your ability, which is a very fair deal.

*This is only supposedly fair. Remember Fordola's reasoning for firing on Specula Imperatoris:



It's quite clear from this and how conquered peoples are treated that, with the exception of Gaius' XIVth, the Garleans are anything but fair. You have to be better than a Garlean for them to consider you an equal - which is not equality. Aulus mal Asina further pushes the idea Garleans are superior to all other races in every regard with the exception of their inability to wield magicks. It's so bad the Garleans don't believe a talented soldier like Fordola could have obtained her station through merit - they accuse her of whoring herself out for it behind her back - because of a tactical blunder getting Lakshmi summoned. Gaius' progressiveness with Rhitahtyn and Fordola should not be taken as the Empire's general stance in regards to soldiers from provincial territories.

1: Think about it, we Know of two (maby three) technologically advanced civilizations: Allagans, Mhach, and Garland. Allagans and Mhach were warmonger's and their misuse of their technology eventually lead to their destruction. For Garleans they are a current enemy and just like the Allagans they use their technology for conquest so you can't really blame the rest of the world for not being fond of technology. That aside, Cid's Ironworks, the Citizens of Idleshire, and the nation of Sharlayan, are perhaps the only peaceful promoters of technology.

2. "harsh, unforgiving place" That sums up any province ruled by Garland and is invalid. Play through stormblood, watch all the cutscenes and you'll see how harsh and unforgiving Garlemald is to the nations it enslaves and how they even kill their own people on a whim. As I said before they are very much a ff14 version of Nazi Germany (or as others prefer to call it: third reich)

3. And by "earn" you mean kill their friends and their families. The only "ability" they care about is the ability to kill and many times in stormblood have they been shown making people kill their own. To support the empire in any form means you might as well go kill your parents and siblings right now. That is what the empire stands for after all and you believe it to be perfect fair.

As for Fordola she's delusional, traitorous, psychopath. She thinks that committing genocide against her own people will eventually win them freedom but in truth her actions only serve to lead her people to extinction.

[Theodric]

I mean, it's pretty clear that you're just going to claim that Garlemald is without any redeeming qualities and deserves to be wiped out because, in your biased mind, it resembles 'Nazi Germany'. So I'm not even sure why you're engaging in the first place, if I'm honest.

There's also a lot of irony in criticising a nation for resorting to genocide only to propose it as a solution yourself. Garlemald only came to resort to such measures because its people were persecuted and pushed around. If that had not happened then we would not have seen it's foreign policy become so harsh. Even then, you fail to acknowledge that Zenos was working against the better interests of his homeland and was written off as a monster by his own father.

Yet that doesn't fit your narrative, I guess.

[Odstarva]

The truth of the matter is if there was absolutely nothing worth saving in Garlemald, the nation would have collapsed from within from it's inception. People are still people, they still need a place to eat, sleep, socialize, etc. The very fact that someone like Cid and Lucia were born and raised in the empire and yet are presented as sensible, reasonable and (dare I say) -good- people proves that this nation can't be as -evil- as people make it out to be.


At the end of the day, it's all matters of perspective.

[Klonoa7]

Would you rather everyone believe that every last member of Garlemald and Nazi Germany are nice guys and 100% support them? Because that's what you're getting at. Garlemald has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and the only way to guarantee the world remains safe from them is to destroy them otherwise they'll keep trying to destroy everyone else. (Ultima, Black Rose, etc)

[YianKutku]

Would you rather everyone believe that every last member of Garlemald and Nazi Germany are nice guys and 100% support them? Because that's what you're getting at. Garlemald has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and the only way to guarantee the world remains safe from them is to destroy them otherwise they'll keep trying to destroy everyone else. (Ultima, Black Rose, etc)

I feel that there is an excluded middle here.

[VargasVermillion]

Would you rather everyone believe that every last member of Garlemald and Nazi Germany are nice guys and 100% support them? Because that's what you're getting at. Garlemald has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and the only way to guarantee the world remains safe from them is to destroy them otherwise they'll keep trying to destroy everyone else. (Ultima, Black Rose, etc)

No one has actually said they support them 100%, but you are being just as extreme. Garlemald aren't the ones destroying the planet first of all. That's all on the beastmen, and garlemald has decided that the ONLY way of stopping that is by killing off all beastmen who follow some kind of belief system (which is just as extreme as your thought process). Although the fact they have beastmen in their armies throughout stormblood shows they aren't entirely about wiping them out.

[Klonoa7]

The very fact that someone like Cid and Lucia were born and raised in the empire and yet are presented as sensible, reasonable and (dare I say) -good- people proves that this nation can't be as -evil- as people make it out to be.

It's equally possible they took brain damage akin to Goku which caused a Heel–Face Turn.
To those that don't know what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RatcI5nH9ao&t=1m30s

[Odstarva]

It's equally possible they took brain damage akin to Goku which caused a Heel–Face Turn.
To those that don't know what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RatcI5nH9ao&t=1m30s

Now I know you're trolling.

Good work though, you had everyone fooled!

[Klonoa7]

Garlemald aren't the ones destroying the planet first of all.

Right.... So I supposed the Garleans didn't try to crash a freaking moon into the planet which would have ended all life as we know it