SAM out classing all other DPS

[Inuk9]

Let's say MNK\NIN are doing 100
Let's say DRG is doing 90
SAM should be doing 120. Now he is doing 150.

[Daws]

All those who think that the samurai is much too simple despite the great DMG output either have never played him on 70 or 62+ or his mechanics not understood. It is not just about combo to combo to use but also to use your Kenki accordingly.

The 62+ part is key with SAM. I hit 62 yesterday and was alarmed by how much more kenki we generate with Kenki Mastery II. Thankfully we get Shinten at 62 also but I didn't think to test out the new stuff before jumping into a dungeon...it was like I put my shoes on the wrong feet. It was disorienting at first to go from a slow trickle of kenki to it spilling out and needing to get rid of it lol. Good stuff, though. If you loved SAM before 62 you'll love it more after that. The playstyle kicks up another notch.

[Lastelli]

Let's say MNK\NIN are doing 100
Let's say DRG is doing 90
SAM should be doing 120. Now he is doing 150.

False, the data is easily available and analyzable and it's more around 110. You do realize you're suggesting that SAM is doing 50% more damage than NIN/MNK, right? You do realize that NIN can go as high as 4k dps in susano (and MNK even higher than that) and if SAM dps really was 150% of that it would be at 6k dps...right?

[Galvuu]

snip

Pretty sure that was just an analogy to get his point across and the numbers aren't based in fact x)
If you do work out the math with actual parses, his point seems to stand though.

[Lastelli]

Pretty sure that was just an analogy to get his point across and the numbers aren't based in fact x)
If you do work out the math with actual parses, his point seems to stand though.

A 5-10% difference from the second highest dps? Really? I mean we now have the dps - balance column on fflogs so it's not that hard to check that SAM is not actually outdpsing other jobs by a lot.

[Galvuu]

A 5-10% difference from the second highest dps? Really? I mean we now have the dps - balance column on fflogs so it's not that hard to check that SAM is not actually outdpsing other jobs by a lot.

I'm going to entertain this because I was curious on the actual number.
Let's consider Sunsano EX.
Checking that same column (no-Bal dps), highest SAM is 4.5k (and there's three of them). The highest DRG has 3.8k, again without balance. You can say these are outliers. The second highest SAM is 4.3, and there's a fair number of them. For DRG, the number is 3.7k. This is a 600~700 dps difference. The highest non-bal BRD and MCH were around 3.7k and 3.5k (I think I saw one 3.6k MCH). In the optimal scenario where you have both in your team, you should be getting around 160 dps off the BRD with Disembowel (dots aren't affected by this) and 175 from the MCH.
That's, obviously, 335. So the three Litanies you'll get over the fight and the four dragon sights need to equate 300 raid dps over the course of the whole fight. If you only have a BRD/MCH (more likely), this number becomes 460 dps.
I'm not sure Litany can close that gap.

This whole analysis is also biased pro-DRG- there are a lot more 4.3k+ SAM than there are 3.7k+ DRG, so you'd expect that if you looked at a non-bal 90% percentile, the gap the DRG has to close off sheer utility would be even bigger.
He may be wrong, but what he said warrants thought, and I do think he's right (that's a lot of damage for those two buffs to gain over a 7~8 minute fight).

[Lastelli]

I'm going to entertain this because I was curious on the actual number.

The problem with this reasoning is that it doesn't take into account two things:
1) the multiplicative effect of buffs, meaning that the more party members with party dps increasing skills there are, the more useful these buffs become;
2) the possibility of having more party members of the same role that greatly benefit from a given utility (remember, drg+mch+brd was optimal damage wise in creator).
Also you forgot to mention Dragon Sight, which is yet another dps increasing skill that drg have.

Now, I'm not sure why you've chosen to compare sam and drg when drg is clearly the only one melee dps that need some buffs and some qol fixes (notice how you don't have any nin/mnk complaining about their damage on the forums?), but if you try to compare sam vs mnk/nin you'll notice that what I said is correct. If you factor in mnk and nin party utility, and this includes skills like mantra, shadewalker and smoke screen since these can be potentially used to increase healers' and tanks' dps, not only direct dps buffs like brotherhood and trick attack, you'll notice that sam, nin and mnk are actually very well balanced. Drg, however, needs some qol fixes and a slight dps buff. But if they just nerf sam to the point where the damage difference between sam and mnk/nin is any lower than the current 5-10%, I guarantee that nin/mnk will be a strictly better pair than any other pair including a sam.

[edgefusion]

Salt aside my problem with Sam is it their damage, I just wanna see that like any other memes dps bad play is punished with more then just a missed opportunity. As it stands if a bad Sam fucks up they still have enough damage to outshine other class with how high their potencies are. I think this can be adjusted if you increase the kenki generation of abilities but allow it and Sen to fall off over time.

I found it odd that Yoshi stated in the 4.01 patch notes that classes that were heavily punished by mechanics did more DPS. Samurai does the most DPS by far and barely blinks at mechanics. Hell if a boss jumps away it's merely an opportunity for Samurai to start powering up, while everyone else loses their buffs, then they pop their short CD Meikyo and are back to max again.

[Niyuka]

Girls and guys, listen up! We have ZERO content in the game that cannot be completed by facerolling the weakest classes through it. ZERO. Until we actually get content where it might matter, this is just virtual e-peen envy.

[BlackThought]

Girls and guys, listen up! We have ZERO content in the game that cannot be completed by facerolling the weakest classes through it. ZERO. Until we actually get content where it might matter, this is just virtual e-peen envy.

This is a cute take, but when you can see a glaring disparity you don't wait for the most difficult content. Best to voice if before and hope it's tweaked before then.