SAM out classing all other DPS

[Galvuu]

snip

Pretty sure that was just an analogy to get his point across and the numbers aren't based in fact x)
If you do work out the math with actual parses, his point seems to stand though.

[Lastelli]

Pretty sure that was just an analogy to get his point across and the numbers aren't based in fact x)
If you do work out the math with actual parses, his point seems to stand though.

A 5-10% difference from the second highest dps? Really? I mean we now have the dps - balance column on fflogs so it's not that hard to check that SAM is not actually outdpsing other jobs by a lot.

[Galvuu]

A 5-10% difference from the second highest dps? Really? I mean we now have the dps - balance column on fflogs so it's not that hard to check that SAM is not actually outdpsing other jobs by a lot.

I'm going to entertain this because I was curious on the actual number.
Let's consider Sunsano EX.
Checking that same column (no-Bal dps), highest SAM is 4.5k (and there's three of them). The highest DRG has 3.8k, again without balance. You can say these are outliers. The second highest SAM is 4.3, and there's a fair number of them. For DRG, the number is 3.7k. This is a 600~700 dps difference. The highest non-bal BRD and MCH were around 3.7k and 3.5k (I think I saw one 3.6k MCH). In the optimal scenario where you have both in your team, you should be getting around 160 dps off the BRD with Disembowel (dots aren't affected by this) and 175 from the MCH.
That's, obviously, 335. So the three Litanies you'll get over the fight and the four dragon sights need to equate 300 raid dps over the course of the whole fight. If you only have a BRD/MCH (more likely), this number becomes 460 dps.
I'm not sure Litany can close that gap.

This whole analysis is also biased pro-DRG- there are a lot more 4.3k+ SAM than there are 3.7k+ DRG, so you'd expect that if you looked at a non-bal 90% percentile, the gap the DRG has to close off sheer utility would be even bigger.
He may be wrong, but what he said warrants thought, and I do think he's right (that's a lot of damage for those two buffs to gain over a 7~8 minute fight).

[Niyuka]

Girls and guys, listen up! We have ZERO content in the game that cannot be completed by facerolling the weakest classes through it. ZERO. Until we actually get content where it might matter, this is just virtual e-peen envy.

[BlackThought]

Girls and guys, listen up! We have ZERO content in the game that cannot be completed by facerolling the weakest classes through it. ZERO. Until we actually get content where it might matter, this is just virtual e-peen envy.

This is a cute take, but when you can see a glaring disparity you don't wait for the most difficult content. Best to voice if before and hope it's tweaked before then.

[Niyuka]

This is a cute take, but when you can see a glaring disparity you don't wait for the most difficult content. Best to voice if before and hope it's tweaked before then.

And Yoshi has already announced changes in 4.05 or whatever the Savage release is. And I am sure there will be discrepancies, but judging by the way they are making the game easier in Stormblood, I doubt it ll be down to job/class difference. I dont think whining now will mean anything to them or us, because the designers will say "wait for Savage", and we will say "even though we dont know Savage, we postulate that X or Y will not be balanced".

FFXIV is currently a sightseeing tour, not a raid MMO. Lets see if they change that to a relevant degree.

[BlackThought]

And Yoshi has already announced changes in 4.05 or whatever the Savage release is. And I am sure there will be discrepancies, but judging by the way they are making the game easier in Stormblood, I doubt it ll be down to job/class difference. I dont think whining now will mean anything to them or us, because the designers will say "wait for Savage", and we will say "even though we dont know Savage, we postulate that X or Y will not be balanced".

FFXIV is currently a sightseeing tour, not a raid MMO. Lets see if they change that to a relevant degree.

Yeah, I don't think that helps your original point. The latter is literally a result of the community discussion. This devil's advocacy people do on these forums when some folks point out discrepancies is laughable. "Whining" as you call it, is how we got ARR in the first place. An MMO is a dynamic product and the devs would be the first to admit they err from time to time.

[Neela]

FFXIV is currently a sightseeing tour, not a raid MMO. Lets see if they change that to a relevant degree.

actually they allready said its not their intention to change that.... they clearly said they want to close the cap of casual players and veterans skill level... whats really sad and somehow not understandable for me... if they do it like they just did with SB-release, making everything simple, nearly so simple that it bores people just a few weeks after release... I don't see veterans paying for that any longer – they mentioned a third skill level on top of hard mode and extreme mode... but I doubt that this extra skill level will touch any other content than raids/primals... mqs, fates, hunts, new cls like sam/rdm etc will remain easy like it became with SB... : /

[Shiroe]

Feels as if, hey made both Sam and Rdm with intention "to get new players hooked fast". One (Sam) with insane dps, not easy but not punished rotations/gameplay (punishing classes, frustrate new players the fastest), ..

the other (Rdm) very easy rotations/gameplay with very high burst and movement (+ thanx to utility gets in pfs well),

think SE felt Drk, Ast & Mch (roration/gameplay & "power " feeling-wise) didn't not get new players hooked that well ..., sure, there were a few new players, who still tried to stick to Drk, for what it represents, ... but at HW release, those 3 classes felt overall less attractive for newer players ..

probably a reason why Sam and Rdm can both be accessed in early areas, even ufo only at lv 50

maybe till SE feels, there are enough (new players) sticking to Sam/Rdm, they won't change much on them

[Shiroe]

snip

Tldr, SE is using Sam & Rdm as a big selling point for new and come back players

(trying to use them better than Drk, Ast & Mch, those flet as if more intended/build for veteran players, not trying to sell more, but keep/hold the establish the base)

and as long as SE is happy with the amount of (new players) starting and holding to Sam/Rdm, hence sees parallel growth of Sam/Rdm and new Subs (with jump pots possibly), SE won't touch those classes