Consolidated Scholar 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Amaret]

Please stop posting and saying Scholar is strong in 4.0 when it got literally nothing but nerfs and is a fraction of what it was. Those saying they love Scholar at seventy are oblivious. So I compiled a list of facts of the state of Scholar right now and possible fixes. Don't reply to this and complain about one specific point I made. Just read it and become aware of Scholar's state.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Not even 70 and not able to understand how strong chain strategem is.
This game isnt all about Dungeons & AoE Dmg. (But yea i admit non existent AoE makes dungeons boring)


Scholar is fine for raids and pretty much still the go to. Mana-Management is by far no problem.
Shadowflare is awesome how it is, especially for fights where the bosses disappear/need to be moved very often.(Its even stronger if you count in that you can broil 2 times instead of wasting gcd to cast shadowflare)
Embrace scale way differently than our normal heals. Embrace is still strong, and its free compared to the hots from ast/whm.
Adlo -> since MP isn't an issue... why reverting it? It should be used for tbs and hard hitting aoe (spread) not as just a better heal than physic.

This doc is just a pile of bullshit... its just a "mimimi make my class op plx" of someone who doesn't knew how to play Scholar befor Stormblood anyway.

[Riyshn]

Embrace scale way differently than our normal heals. Embrace is still strong, and its free compared to the hots from ast/whm.
Adlo -> since MP isn't an issue... why reverting it? It should be used for tbs and hard hitting aoe (spread) not as just a better heal than physic.

I hate that people keep making the Embrace=Regen comparison. It's really not equivalent. Yeah, it's free. This makes up for SCH having generally lower healing potencies at higher costs than the other healers. It is not however, a true replacement for a regen. The key difference being that you can have more than 1 regen going on more than 1 person at a time. The only thing SCH has that fits this is Whispering Dawn, which is gated being a ~30% uptime and at the whims of the pet AI.

Adlo MP is most definitely an issue. I imagine it will get better as ilvl increases with Piety now being apparently a bigger healer thing, but at the moment, at least while leveling, it literally costs more than Aetherflow returns. Our core mechanic costs more than our built-in MP management tool gives us. This is not acceptable.

[Amaret]

I hate that people keep making the Embrace=Regen comparison. It's really not equivalent. Yeah, it's free. This makes up for SCH having generally lower healing potencies at higher costs than the other healers. It is not however, a true replacement for a regen. The key difference being that you can have more than 1 regen going on more than 1 person at a time. The only thing SCH has that fits this is Whispering Dawn, which is gated being a ~30% uptime and at the whims of the pet AI.

Oh, yea... because WHM/AST are useing regen on every target they can get.
Also you forgot Fey Covenant and Fey Illumation if you want to compare it that way.

Adlo MP is most definitely an issue. I imagine it will get better as ilvl increases with Piety now being apparently a bigger healer thing, but at the moment, at least while leveling, it literally costs more than Aetherflow returns. Our core mechanic costs more than our built-in MP management tool gives us. This is not acceptable.

It is, just accept that you have to make use of lucid dreaming. And Adlo isnt the core mechanic of Scholar.

[Riyshn]

Oh, yea... because WHM/AST are useing regen on every target they can get.
Also you forgot Fey Covenant and Fey Illumation if you want to compare it that way.

Not every target possible, no, but both tanks and maybe a DPS who just got hit by a mech? And at the same time? Yes.
Ah, I assume you're referring to Inferior Bole and Unreliable Mantra?
(EDIT: Rechecked numbers, "Inferior Bole" is slightly unfair; different use cases. Bole is 20% or 10% AoE and works for all damage, FC is 20% AoE but only works for magic.)

It is, just accept that you have to make use of lucid dreaming. And Adlo isnt the core mechanic of Scholar.

It... is, actually. Until AST got overbuffed because reasons, SCH's defining thing was the shields. Which I suppose you're right, the core mechanic is Aetherflow, not Adlo. So I'll revise: Our MP management skill (Which also happens to be our core mechanic) is no longer enough to cover the cost of our defining skill.

I will accept that that is what SE has decided to do to the job, and I have no direct power to change it. That does not mean I will be happy about it or stop trying to make a case that it was a mistake.

[VallariaEllethwen]

Not even 70 and not able to understand how strong chain strategem is.
This game isnt all about Dungeons & AoE Dmg. (But yea i admit non existent AoE makes dungeons boring)


Scholar is fine for raids and pretty much still the go to. Mana-Management is by far no problem.
Shadowflare is awesome how it is, especially for fights where the bosses disappear/need to be moved very often.(Its even stronger if you count in that you can broil 2 times instead of wasting gcd to cast shadowflare)
Embrace scale way differently than our normal heals. Embrace is still strong, and its free compared to the hots from ast/whm.
Adlo -> since MP isn't an issue... why reverting it? It should be used for tbs and hard hitting aoe (spread) not as just a better heal than physic.

This doc is just a pile of bullshit... its just a "mimimi make my class op plx" of someone who doesn't knew how to play Scholar befor Stormblood anyway.

First of all I am level seventy and have been for a few days, I've mained Scholar since launch four years ago, and even played in beta with a breaks here and there as everyone has taken. So I know what Scholar was like in ARR AND Heavensward in the dungeon aspect, the trial aspect and raiding aspect. Astrologian's single target shield is instant with no cast time and shields for more than Scholar's Adlo which has a cast time. Astrologian's AoE Shield is stronger than Scholar's Succor, Astrologian's bubble shield is stronger than Sacred Soil. They get Bole Card for even more mititgation, but yet Scholar is and has always been the main shield and mitigation healer but Astrlogian can do everything we can do but better at all. I never stated it was all about dungeons and AoE damage?? That was merely ON TOP of AST having better shields and damage mitigation in every department. So I don't appreciate your false assumptions.

[Amaret]

...

Well, according to your profile you never completed any raids. (At least not the last turns). Shields aren't even needed somewhere else beside raids. (And even there they should be used rarely)
The Bubble does the same Mitigation than sacred soil, downswide for the AST is he cant move/use spells. The HoT can be brought for free with you fairy... buffed... every 60sec. Also scholar still have Fey Convenant which is 20% magic def up. Additional u still have an inbuilt 20% heal up which neither the whm and ast have now.
Excogitation is an amazing skill if you are in a group which is willing to utilize it.
Chain Strategem is strong, especially in combination with other buffs. You need to see the whole picture not just the class scholar.
Hell you even have way more access to all the Aetherstack spells now. (And the 10 sec reduce procs fairly often for "just" 20%")
Fey Union is actually useful if you try to find openings for it. (e.g. Susanno when you have to move right / left as group, you can totally ignore the tank)

I'm not saying Scholar are still OP, but they got closer streamlined to the other healers and are by far "nerfed to death". And sry, but its alot of babyrage going on in here right now which isn't even justified.
Just read all the proposals in this thread. 90% of them are would be way to strong (as like in your google doc)

And yes, Bole is to strong and even everyone of the world first / Speedrunners will tell you that and even would like to see it nerfed. But that doesn't make Scholar a "dead" class.

And no... Scholars aren't the weakest healers people are just exaggerating... instead of putting so much rage into it it might be better to either try to adapt to it and might find new challenges with it or just switch to the "so called op class" with which most of the players wont even use the max capability. (like they never did with scholar and now raging about)

[Supersun]

And no... Scholars aren't the weakest healers

So do you consider Whm or Ast to be weaker? Because unless Sch is stronger than Whm or Ast...