Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

[Applecrisp92]

Well, 3.X dragoon was leagues better than this sorry excuse of what was supposed to be dragoon....I mean 70 seconds to build up life of the dragon is a killer and much more of a chore than ever before..not to mention you can forget about doing good damage seeing as we are officially hitting like a wet sponge.I'm hurt and pretty mad with some of the changes we swap out good damage for quality of life changes,I'm sorry but they need to seriously do some class rebalancing...but from all I have seen I struggle just to keep up with ninja seeing as samurai is ridiculously overpowered..not saying I don't want to try samurai but it has left me with feeling kind of bitter towards that class seeing as it got the royal treatment leaving other classes in horrible states....and poor monks...I hope they do rebalancing soon because this is just upsetting :/ dragoon by no means was the best melee but they could at least keep up with other classes in terms of output....now I just feel useless T^T

[Erys]

Snip

Pushing 3 or 4 dfd during a raid encounter isn't hard, no. But don't confuse that with 100% uptime. Because sometimes you will find yourself holding jumps because the boss is not there and you just can't use that jump that just came of cd, same for SSD.
And by holding the LotD from DfD you would be holding it for 50 seconds or so. Missing a Geirskogul btw, so I don't think it's the most optimal solution.

I'd rather see potencies buffed and a buff to jumps and/or Mirages during LotD since you are squeezing at least 1 Jump during it and 2 mirage dives. That way is all tidy and lined up, plus we don't just "waste" BfB in just 1 jump and one spineshatter dive just for lulz.
Alternatively we could have WT and F&C refresh LotD and have Nastrond consume 10 seconds of it, that way we can upkeep LotD and output Nastronds galore.

Also dragoon doesn't need to be easier than it's currently, BotD is pretty straight forward since it's most of the time 30seconds. Just making LotD even easier instead of making you "think" at when to use BotD or when to push that awkwardly timed with the boss LotD is just killing the job more into braindead territory. We need more interesting mechanics not getting whatever new thing they give us and making it dumber than already is.

[Nominous]

Also dragoon doesn't need to be easier than it's currently, BotD is pretty straight forward since it's most of the time 30seconds. Just making LotD even easier instead of making you "think" at when to use BotD or when to push that awkwardly timed with the boss LotD is just killing the job more into braindead territory. We need more interesting mechanics not getting whatever new thing they give us and making it dumber than already is.

But does difficulty equate to fun for everyone? Not that I can speak for such a large grouping of people... Anyways. I liked HW DRG as much as the next guy, but will I say that I liked managing 3 GK per minute during raids? Naw. I was playing the BoTD timer more than I was playing the game.

Just as an example, I'm sure BRD aren't happy that their damage is so much lower now, but they seem happy with the playstyle. You know what we DON'T see every 2 seconds right now? BRD threads complaining about how awful they feel. So... I mean, maybe potency buffs are all that's needed, since some DRG just liked seeing big numbers (I know I did), but that might not be all that people are bummed about. I'm leaning more towards the idea that it needs a bit more QoL love than it is wanting it to be easier, necessarily.

[akaneakki]

DRG is so punishing when you have high dps in groups. The second the boss can't be hit anymore is when I have life of the dragon ready. It's silly. Either buff the sight for less cooldown or more %. Make the eyes activate on 3 instead of 4. Idk and also the range on sight is stupidly low.

[Jonnycbad]

Trying to maintain eyes between pulls is extremely nerve-wracking. The only time I really ever get to see or use Life of the Dragon/Nastrond is on bosses usually, which is sad.

[akaneakki]

Trying to maintain eyes between pulls is extremely nerve-wracking. The only time I really ever get to see or use Life of the Dragon/Nastrond is on bosses usually, which is sad.

Or when bosses are gone when you can actually use it lol

[Shamox]

What you guys don't understand is:
Losing Lotd on a boss isnt gonna make you lose as much dps as you seems to think.
Actual problem with the DRG isnt here.

Ya don't even know what's the problem yet you want it to get solved?


We'd need to get back disembowel to 10%, a mirage dive that we can double weave, an extra 5% on B4B would be great tbh.
Incrising dragon sight range is kinda useless, it'll still be small af and whenever you're in a duo melee the guy should have no problem sticking yo ass.
Although gettings its cooldown to 80sc just like B4B could really do the trick.

Tbh, after testing a bit, I clearly do 10% less crits, which is a lot, same thing happened once HW came out, you can't reach the cap with the actual stuff.
We might get some surprise coming with the theorycrafting in that case, crit would not be the thing anymore (for now).


tl;dr: Actual DRG dps is 95% based on your rotation, do it well and you'll have almost everything, Lotd is clearly not what you relate on to do what you can do right now, getting it to come sooner would actually make it irrelevant due to non-alignement with B4B, problems comes from the loss of crit and phleb, we'd need more dps coming from either our rotation/ or our timer such as B4B or Dragon sight, ajusting some potencies could do the trick too.
Getting a good dps is way easier that it has ever been, optimization on the other hand is clearly harder than before, don't make it easier it's good the way it is.

[Riotpersona]

-

It doesn't really matter if losing nastronds is a big or small dps loss, I feel the more pressing issue that is bothering a lot of people is that the vast majority of other DPS classes do not have to jump through such obnoxious hoops in order to get to the key part of their damage. We are expected to try to maintain eyes through the use of refreshing BotD but it is extremely unwieldy, makes me anxious as fuck, and is just all around clunky.

Dragon sights range is a legitimate issue, the other melee should not have to, and as more demanding mechanics arise, will not be able to stick on your ass all the time (or vice versa). There is also the problem with bosses that are extremely large. In 4-man dungeons even some mid-size bosses are too big for you to tether to the tank. Furthermore as you stated, currently it doesn't line up with much.

[Riotpersona]

I completely agree that adding more means to achieve jump ready is not the solution here. Potency increases and returning the old disembowel figures would help. A way to retain eyes that isn't as clumsy as refreshing BotDs manual cooldown would go a long way.

Perhaps a skill that would allow DRG to either double (in the vein of manafication) or immediately generate 4 eyes on a long a cooldown would help by allowing us to have Nastronds in our opener without breaking the rotation later down the line.

Overall, for me, the poor performance of DRG compared to other mDPS was just the icing. My biggest issue is that indeed the job has been simplified in some aspects versus how it was in 3.x, but the 'challenge' that remains with this new DRG doesn't FEEL good. I don't feel rewarded when I'm playing the class well, and the kind of management on 4.x DRG for optimization is just clunky, and doesn't flow in a good way. It just isn't fun.

[Erys]

Idk how you guys can say you liked drg 3.0 and not like 4.0
It's the same, we have moved from Geirskogul management to eyes management. It's the exact same thing now.