Next Job/Jobs Speculation

[Kazrah]

Personally I feel that Shogun for the role of tank, is still within the realm of possibility as is Onmyouji (oracles in english). I feel that since Hingashi is still locked to us, perhaps when it is opened in the future, we could get access to those jobs.

We almost got Oracle....

As for Shogun, there's just not enough really to discern it from a Dark Knight in the old Doman armor. Could go on about ability differences or whatnot, but in the end, people would still look at the two standing around together and might not know the difference.

[Yin111]

For Shogun, there's just not enough really to discern it from a Dark Knight in the old Doman armor. Could go on about ability differences or whatnot, but in the end, people would still look at the two standing around together and might not know the difference.

The Orical thing I am aware of, as for Shogun.

Doesn't mean they could not or should not do it. Doman gear is one armor design of samurai based armors, much like how there are many variations of western pate armor. And as for Shogun being indistinguishable from a Dark Knight, again as before we are not devs. We lack the ability to truly imagine the uniqueness of a Job. You are also assuming that Shogun would use a Nodachi (longsword), which may as well, not be the case.

Furthermore, the use of a greatsword is to use the mass and momentum of the sword to crush armor and slice the opponent. That much is easily apparent in the animations. Longswords are generally used in a diffrent manner especially in fantasy settings. Often in fantasy settings the longsword is used proffeciantly with little show or hints of mass from the sword in comparison to a great sword which is often as wide and almost as tall as it's user with proper thickness aswell.

And lastly, cultural differences and perceptions rarely stops introductions of subjects or items from other cultures. Have certain elements been changed in the past? Yes of course, but only for subjects that a culture finds griting such as the west's aversion to sexual themes. And the east aversion to excessive violence and blood.

[Kazrah]

-snip-

And again....

Could go on about ability differences or whatnot, but in the end, people would still look at the two standing around together and might not know the difference.

The only reason why most people want Shogun is because they wanted Samurai to be a tank like how it was in FFXI. They wanted a character in heavy armor with a big sword, a.k.a. Dark Knight in eastern attire. This is what I meant by that quote.

Now you could have Shogun working more with a tactician theme and have them as rearguard support combatants to reflect that, and I know at least one person on the forums proposed that idea some time ago. Otherwise, if it's too close to looking like Samurai or too close to looking like that Dark Knight in Doman gear, then odds are that the job doesn't have enough of a degree of individuality to be adequately represented.

As for the whole thing about "lacking the ability to truly imagine the uniqueness of a job", look at all the ideas on this thread and others for Blue Mage, a job that Yoshi has repeatedly said "no" to, yet even in this thread we see a slew of ideas for a job that would actually have a higher degree of individuality given its broad range of looks in previous games.

[Yin111]

-snip-

FFXI Samurai's weapon used a Tachi or Uchigatanas... Those are about the same size as the currently exsisting ones that Samurai uses in XIV. Tachis and Uchigatanas are long but are no means considered a big weapon. Longswords are much longer but are not generally regarded as "Big" swords like Cloud's great sword for example, but rather "extra-long" swords like Sephiroth's Masamune. Below is one example of a longsword's length and curve

You claim that the only reason most people want Shogun was to use a big sword, that is most likly not the case unless it is blantly obvious that the vast majority says such. As as I seen, only a few has asked for a Longsword. And asking the Japanese community how they invisioned a Shogun, I have not yet recived an answer claiming they invision them using a Nodachi.

If your implying that Shogun can be a Sub Tank oriented that offer some support ability, I can see that. But again though, as I have said before multiple times regarding it's Weapons and Armor. There is still many other Japanse weaponry besides a Longsword. Doman gear is one of many samurai themed armor and you may end up with an amor set like so

And all that, is disregarding every other detail that is placed into a theme.

And as for the Blue mage thing, have Yoshida ever said "no" out right? The only time I recall he mentioning it was from the live letter
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/191993

A: I think that blue mage is an interesting job because you can learn spells from enemies, but honestly I don't think that it really fits MMORPG party settings. If anything, I think it would work solo and it would be really fun to implement it as a job where you go around and learn abilities from every monster, so I'd definitely like to try and do this, but I'm concerned when it comes to playing in a party players would put up barriers if you haven't learned certain abilities. Additionally, in the event you are able to use abilities forever once you learn them, the difficulty of learning abilities would be high, and we wouldn't be able to balance the system so it wouldn't revolve around procuring your abilities instead of equipment. This wouldn't be practical enough to fit in an MMORPG party setting and conversely if you are swapping in only certain abilities you've learned, the true image of a blue mage would diminish, so this is something that I am concerned with.

While he said he doesn't feel like he can implement it correctly true to its theme, he does not outright say "no" and even implies he is still intreasted in trying to implement Blue Mage. Unless I missed an interview somewhere where Yoshida flat out says "no".

[Kazrah]

This wouldn't be practical enough to fit in an MMORPG party setting and conversely if you are swapping in only certain abilities you've learned, the true image of a blue mage would diminish, so this is something that I am concerned with.

This last line is the flat out "no". He has mentioned wanting the job implemented, but is all too aware that to force it into a substantially more balanced MMORPG means that Blue Mage would have to make sacrifices on that key identity component that everyone seems to cling to about the job.

As for Shogun, I'm not sure you're understanding the original statement I made. The majority of requests for Shogun seem to be coming from the same people griping and moaning about Samurai not being a tank, and when I say "big sword", I'm pretty much referring to any sword that requires both hands to wield--not just Nodachi, not just any sizable Japanese blade--any sword that requires two hands. Yes, I am well aware of the multitude of other Japanese blades, but I refer to any job with a two-handed sword, and any more jobs like that would cause confusion between the current jobs with two-handed swords that we have right now.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Shogun is a bad idea. I'm saying that for the purpose of creating a visibly unique job capable of distinguishing itself from all the other jobs in the game, it should not use a sword. That's all on the matter.

[Yin111]

This last line is the flat out "no". He has mentioned wanting the job implemented, but is all too aware that to force it into a substantially more balanced MMORPG means that Blue Mage would have to make sacrifices on that key identity component that everyone seems to cling to about the job.

As I recall, while Blue Mage may suffer from such identity issue, was Red Mage also not the case? If I remember correctly the issue with Red Mage was it's hybrid ability as a sub healer and damage dealer, and it's image of jack of all and master of none. To my current understanding of Red Mage, it seems the compromise was to make it a full DPS caster with dual cast and giving them a potent cure and raise that scales on INT. While this does almost nothing to tank due to their massive HP, it is enough to save DPS and Healers as well as to raise dead members. While this is the compromise, it is probibly seen as acceptable.

That being said, my understanding of Blue Mage is that it gets hit by an ability to learn an abiity, and the collection of abilitys is something that people most fondly remember as part of the Blue Mage. Is that the key component that most people cling to and is that it's core identity? I assumed that a Blue Mages's identity or theme was the ability to use attack that comes from monsters, regardless of how it is obtained. Which in XIV would be from Job Trainers and quest, or just being learned automaticlly from level up. While XIV may not see a true collection of abilitys, locking abilities beind the story from job quest may provide some amount of comfort in that regard. While I can not imagine a compromise myself, I do not believe that one is so out of reach that Blue Mage is off the table of consideration of future jobs by the devs.

As for Shogun, then that is more understandable. While it is generalizaion, a big one at that, it is nontheless understandable.