Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Mahkii]

This seems more like insecurity than a correlation. SAM is a job that has (practically) 0 raid party buffs. The idea behind SAM's design is that the raid party buffs and the potencies on SAM counterbalance each other. My predictions for SAM is that it will probably be balanced correctly, but anyone who looks more at their own performance than the group's performance will not desire a SAM in their group. On the other hand, I predict that most SAM players will not have the skill required for the justification to become valid, and this will make many players skeptical of SAM players.

All of the above is entirely different from the idea that SE would make one job harder and better than another job. SAM's competition are still good options. I don't believe that I can put WHM in the same boat as DRG/MNK/NIN. In fact, WHM should be more like SAM in this analogy. Except, I don't believe that WHM will be able to justify its design the way that SAM will. What that says to me is that if this is the direction that SE wants to take, WHM's output needs to go up significantly.

When will you guys stop forcing the notion of Plenary Indulgence as an AOE heal, it's honestly hurting it more than its helping. The people who are calling it a bonus tetra are closer to the point, and confession (still believe this will get a proc rate increase) will refresh as long as a proc happens, as its fairly reasonable to believe that the duration stops refreshing at 3 stacks. Its going to be nice for when your hitting preyd DPS with Cure Is and need to pop a quick heal on the tank.

Also when will you accept that ALMOST ALL of ASTs healing strength is in its GCD abilities, whereas WHM its about 50/50, SCH 60/40 but their ridden with opportunity costs and the harder to calculate fairie (eos and selene great, but Embrace isnt as easy to account for in practice). Before you mention Essential Dignity (which is getting nerfed, honestly not to bithered by what they did, its mid range is safe, just its low and high ends got pinched in a bit) and Collective Unconcious (disables any other action for as long as you want the mitigation boost) WHMs have a lot more options to cover these, and after 4.X even more often usable options that can be buffed to be EVEN MORE usable options, just by CHOOSING to use GCDs to heal just like the job that is allegedy crushing your healing (someone please inform me of how to beat out assize, benediction, and asylum with my current kit, cause i know once my 2nd WHM is done the only thing keeping me from surpassing my AST main from falling behind in raw healing is a worse weapon).

Divine Benison, people have already explained how this can match Stoneskin, it seems the peeve is now the GCD isnt for Stoneskin itself but to build resources for it. IMHO Stoneskin was usually a waste of MP.

High Risk High Reward gameplay, yes it looks powerful in the good luck bubble, but apparently you havent been plagued by constant spire/spear/bole enough (ironically these cards get a lot better at these moments since you get to actually use them, assuming your trying to fill spread before royal road) and quite frankly it should, why would one gamble for the same value they put in, the allure of gambling is based on the potential to get more than once puts in, while having to have the odds of aquiring it against you. Other things you may not have noticed, its not improbable for AST to Redraw away Balance to get Ewer/Spire for Royal Road when Spread is already filled. Side not I seriously recommend practicing fishing for Spread exclusively first, as it allows more CDs to be used as opposed to just thrown away. WHM think about how often you use 2 CDs and got 100% nothing out of it because you had reason to throw the end option out.

I briefly skimmed through but stopped at one point. IMO, SCH is as OCD heavy as WHM (or more). That doesn't mean it has a low skill ceiling though. I raid on SCH btw.

[OcieKo]

I briefly skimmed through but stopped at one point. IMO, SCH is as OCD heavy as WHM (or more). That doesn't mean it has a low skill ceiling though. I raid on SCH btw.

If were talking anything done off the characters OGCD Scholar is the heaviest in OGCD used by far when you account for Embrace. For the player themselves AST uses the most, simply from card management. WHM in practice uses OGCDs the least often. For my purpose here, i nixxed non-healing based OGCDs and also took out Embrace as it requires nothing from the play aside from close proximity to other players. So after this your basically down to Indomitibility and Lustrate, and Essential Dignity and Collective Unconcious. WHM its Tetragrammaton, Assize, Asylum, and Benediction. As far as I know only WHM is getting any major reliable changes to usability uptime/frequency on their OGCD heals (while theres complaints about the lilies doing this as well, a lot of them the base was already lowered significantly). It feels to me like the sheer amount of MP/GCD free heals are being ignored on this forum a bit too much.

[javid]

..For the player themselves AST uses the most, simply from card management. WHM in practice uses OGCDs the least often...

Nooooppe You can't do that. Either you include all the healing buffs each class manages or at least the comparable buffs they manage/time. If we're staying sub 90 sec buffs; SCH STILL has more to manage oGCD wise than both AST and WHM COMBINED (any sch worth his/her salt isn't letting fairy sic spam cds!!)

• SCH= emerency tactic, lustrate, Whispering Dawn, Aetherflow, indom, soil*, rouse (I know i'm missing some...)
• AST= CU, ED, card system, Synastry
• WHM= Divine(losing it lulz), Tetra, Assize and Asylum

This. Which is why the thought of AST being considered an "advanced" job by the devs and therefore being ridiculously more powerful than a WHM is upsetting.
I main WHM, but I also play AST and there is absolutely no added difficulty or discomfort I have with the job when switching to it. In fact, it feels exactly like playing a WHM, minus the cards. And a dare someone to tell me managing cards is difficult...
I also dare someone to tell me that RNG is an excuse to give a job OP utility. Because if that was the case, why isn't our RNG lilies resetting our CDs by 100% or healing on the level of Benediction? It's RNG so it has the right to be broken, right?...

YOUUUUU....that's the keyword; you don't find the extra cds/min harder to manage than the effort you output for WHM. However the APM aren't in your WHM favor.... AST is almost twice the APMs than WHM .


Every 30 secs you're pushing at minimum 2 buttons and max 3 just to deal with your cards; So evey minute you are pushing 4-6 buttons. WHM only has 3 cds on a 60 sec timer and they are losing one of them....... (mind you they add 3 more card functions so future SB AST will be doing a lot of button mashing)
AST APM is well over TWICE that of WHM on just the cards alone.....lulz

If YOU don't find having to do twice as many action per minute on your AST compared to your WHM, difficult, that's cool! But don't you think it's a stretch to suppose the nominal FFXIV community find AST just as easy to manage as WHM, or even comparable??

[OcieKo]

[LIST]
[*]SCH= emerency tactic, lustrate, Whispering Dawn, Aetherflow, indom, soil*, rouse (I know i'm missing some...)
[*]AST= CU, ED, card system, Synastry
[*]WHM= Divine(losing it lulz), Tetra, Assize and Asylum

Given that your using 3.X skill comparisons similar to me. Luminiferous Aether and Shroud of Saints are missing (both going poof). SCH Fey Caress (AoE Cleanse) is missing, Shares CD with Fey Covenant (SCH answer to bole, but in AoE regards its twice as strong). Fey Illumination is missing, shares CD with Fey Wind, and as far as i know Fey Wind is preferred, and Selene is generally used more than Eos, unless im missing something. Which makes Whispering Dawn the cheapest of the Fairie CDs by simple merit of having the least useful shared skill with the single target silence on Silent Dusk.
Also just realized, WHM is the only healer that lacks something they cant use on themselves, AST and SCH have 2 each. Not sure if Benison will join those skills tho. So i guess that goes along side the only job without personal disables (channels/temporary kit loss/weakens part if kit).
And yes there is a reasons to ignoring the non-healing skills, to make a point of what WHM has where SCH/AST have their non-healing utility. Its being ignored a bit too heavily. And no one seems to be recommending ditching Benediction or cutting out a facet of Assize for a party offense buff. At some point WHMs are going to have to take downsides to get that non-healing utility, and that isnt apparent in the arguments, just "I wanna be stronger and have more utility at the same time" its one or the other. You wanna take -50% damage on Thin Air to get a reflect or direct hit buff, be my guest, id rather have the option to DPS with Thin Air, but I play WHM to relax.