This is just appalling

[Moonlite]

For the love of..

Saying 'oh they are probably just lying about it' without any actual factual basis isn't just hearsay, it is rude as hell. The Mogstation is a valuable additional revenue stream that doesn't negatively impact the product that those paying a subscription get which allows Yoshi P to justify arguing for more investment into the infrastructure of the game like, you know, server upgrades.

Proof that the Mogstation/Sub has not been a cash funnel into other SE resources is on the people who defend. Not on the people who argue against it. You say it is ok Because it goes into the game or doesn't cover current development. Is their any proof 100% of my sub goes into the game? Any proof that 100% of my cash shop purchase (ie 1) went back into the game. Infrastructure improvements are not a sign. They literally (yes literally) might not have had any choice but to upgrade or face catastrophic sub loss.

Also F2P games come up a lot, also WoW comes up as well. Other games that gouge (Expansion cost = A couple Outfits = gouging) have other in game ways to earn cash shop items. Stop the complaints and create an in game system to earn the items. In other games this also greatly lowered RMT systems.

[savageink]

Proof that the Mogstation/Sub has not been a cash funnel into other SE resources is on the people who defend. Not on the people who argue against it. You say it is ok Because it goes into the game or doesn't cover current development. Is their any proof 100% of my sub goes into the game? Any proof that 100% of my cash shop purchase (ie 1) went back into the game. Infrastructure improvements are not a sign. They literally (yes literally) might not have had any choice but to upgrade or face catastrophic sub loss.

There will never be proof that 100% of your sub went into the game because it doesn't. Anybody who expects that is going to be let down. That's not how companies work and it never will be.

[Belhi]

They could do it without offering the gems to gil conversion. This would just make the cashshop one gigantic gil sink where its either gil or Irl money. This of course runs the risk of the devs making more and more expensive cashshop gear in order to make people play longer and farm gil, but tbh, people are already farming their butt off for loads of gil.

The whole reason the GW2 system is financially viable is because they include gold selling into the model. Your saying 'bring the system, just make no money out of it'. Why even bother with such a system?

I recall during one of the recent Live Letters, EU Fanfest perhaps, that people really wanted an Umbrella Mount and a Krile outfit set. Yoshi P has said they had no plans to make any such thing, but if people demanded it, it would be made but would be pricey as it takes away from development of other things. The crowd cheered loudly and pretty much expressed their want to have it. You can't be mad at SE when the playerbase actively keeps saying "Yes, yes make more! Make it expensive! I don't care, we'll buy it!", vote with your wallet, but since the prices are still as high as they are, then /CLEARLY/ the community is accepting the prices, whether or not they're happy spending the money isn't important, the fact is that they DID.

No. He said the Umbrella mount is already being developed and the Krile outfit was held off because the 'Empress of the Mogstation' wasn't convinced that the sales would sufficiently make up for the cost of producing the outfit for work for all races. He literally said that cash shop items have to be at least expected to pay for their own creation or they don't get developed.

While "speak with your wallet" is indeed a good course of action, it's good for people to let the company know they would be willing to spend if the prices were lower.

That is quite fair and a valid point. However I don't think the demonization of the cash shop it gets is warranted. 'These prices are too high' is valid. 'This is offensive/appalling/shouldn't be in a sub based game' aren't really unless you taking some kind of objective ethical stance. In most cases people making the second argument just seem to want the item without having to actually pay for it.

I would probably buy several items I haven't if they were at a lower price. Cash shop stuff is out of my budget. I don't begrudge those with the money though.

I thought this relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEYGhks8CRk

It really isn't. SE give sub payers what they pay for. Sub payers aren't paying for the development of Cash shop items. Now if what we got in Patch cycles was falling short but the Cash shop was thriving then there would be a problem.

DLC are only a ripe off if the original product is not value for money.

Proof that the Mogstation/Sub has not been a cash funnel into other SE resources is on the people who defend. Not on the people who argue against it. You say it is ok Because it goes into the game or doesn't cover current development. Is their any proof 100% of my sub goes into the game? Any proof that 100% of my cash shop purchase (ie 1) went back into the game. Infrastructure improvements are not a sign. They literally (yes literally) might not have had any choice but to upgrade or face catastrophic sub loss.

Also F2P games come up a lot, also WoW comes up as well. Other games that gouge (Expansion cost = A couple Outfits = gouging) have other in game ways to earn cash shop items. Stop the complaints and create an in game system to earn the items. In other games this also greatly lowered RMT systems.

Basic financial structuring?

Look we know how cash shop items are approved for development because we have been told. That indicates a accounting system where the cash shop's expenses and revenue are calculated independently of FF14's expenses and revenue. While they come from a single game they are two revenue streams and a funded separately.

Now profits from these venture would be potentially funnelled off into other projects, uses in R&D, used to cover general executive and administration costs and passed on to shareholders. Most definitely 100% of your sub goes into the game because if it did that SE would be a charity, not a publicly traded company.

However the total revenues and profits generated by FF14 and its cash shop give a future value to the operation. Thus when FF14 is allocated a budget or when Yoshi P asks the executive to invest in upgrades, that revenue and profit dictates wether it is worth doing from a financial point of view. The higher the revenue/profit, the stronger the argument for budget size and investment into the game. They don't just come up with budgets or make decisions on investments like the server upgrades willy-nilly. There would be long cost analysis reports weighting the costs vs the potential impact on revenue and the need of the upgrades.

Those revenues are calculated by the subs + additional revenue streams the game brings such as the cash shop. So no. 100% of those don't go back into the game but that is because no business puts 100% back into something unless it is not for profit. However it does dictate the size of the budget that FF14 will receive.

That is how successful businesses work. That is basic financial planning.

Only one game I know offers a way to earn cash shop items without some form of currency for cash system attached and that is Wildstar and frankly I don't exactly look at Wildstar as a pillar of success. It barely got a mention on the last NCsoft earnings report. It very surprising that the game hasn't been sunsetted yet.

[Moonlite]

There will never be proof that 100% of your sub went into the game because it doesn't. Anybody who expects that is going to be let down. That's not how companies work and it never will be.

Well that is up for debate on how you consider overhead. Is the person who works at Eorzean cafe overhead of the game? The question of what can be considered overhead and what is negligence is where the line is. But we simply don't have enough info. The inf we have is that they keep putting all this extra stuff into the cash shop, we have a supposedly successful population, and we also have one of the few rent inventory games. Yet we have less content then we did before.

[Twinsoul]

Cut for length.

Calm down, bucko. Last I checked, White Knight wasn't a job in this game. Self-funded or not, they're still impacting a service we're paying for. Considering how often Yoshi uses any and all kinds of data restrictions as an excuse, one would thing we'd pay a little bit of attention to what is and isn't being added to the game and who it's benefiting. It comes down to the fact that sub MMOs are a service and this one is being monetized additionally as a potentially endless series of products, and there are things being added to the cash shop that should be made available in the base game no matter where the funding to produce them comes from.

Cut for length.

Those are all great examples of things that bad f2p games do. But that's not the kind of game we're talking about, and it's not the kind of thing I'm getting at, so what you have is a nice collection of arguments against a point I'm not making. No real need for me to engage with them.

[savageink]

Yet we have less content then we did before.

Huh? Compared to what? They introduce new items all the time. Some are free during events and go to the cash shop awhile after the events. Some stay in the game. It's how they have been doing it since ARR. They didn't stop making in game quest and achievement minions, or mounts. The tomestone gear isn't from basic gear models. New crafting gear isn't identical to old. I'm digging my new sky rat gear. I just need the boots which I will probably keep around for Mad Max glam. I really don't see how any of this is affecting game play or availability/frequency of new items. You guys just don't want to pay for it. I under stand. It sucks to want, but it's not unfair.

[Belhi]

Well that is up for debate on how you consider overhead. Is the person who works at Eorzean cafe overhead of the game? The question of what can be considered overhead and what is negligence is where the line is. But we simply don't have enough info. The inf we have is that they keep putting all this extra stuff into the cash shop, we have a supposedly successful population, and we also have one of the few rent inventory games. Yet we have less content then we did before.

SE has been actively hiring staff for over a year for FF14. The main issue is they are short on battle content designers and are having a hard time filling vacancies with experienced personal. That is just due to the market for that staff. FF14 has a pretty sizable staff now. We are getting a lot of UI and QoL changes but the shortage of battle content designers creates a bottleneck.

Also I wouldn't say we are really getting less. Part of the issue is a number of major experiments really didn't pay out. I would say the time they put into the Diadem really wasn't worth it. That would have taken a lot of development time with rather paltry rewards. Lords of Verminion was a dud to. Deep Dungeon on the other hand has been a huge success.

[Moonlite]

Huh? Compared to what? They introduce new items all the time. Some are free during events and go to the cash shop awhile after the events. Some stay in the game. It's how they have been doing it since ARR. They didn't stop making in game quest and achievement minions, or mounts. The tomestone gear isn't from basic gear models. New crafting gear isn't identical to old. I'm digging my new sky rat gear. I just need the boots which I will probably keep around for Mad Max glam. I really don't see how any of this is affecting game play or availability/frequency of new items. You guys just don't want to pay for it. I under stand. It sucks to want, but it's not unfair.

I ment content in general not gear since I don't have a gear count. They designed 3 dungeons per patch and removed a whole dungeon in 3.0. Going forward we are going down to one every other patch. Not to mention 74 weeks from 2.0 to 2.5. 83 weeks from 3.0 to 3.5. That is 9 weeks difference and giving them the benefit of the doubt that the huge gap between 2.5 and 3.0 was a sign of future content loss.

[Belhi]

I ment content in general not gear since I don't have a gear count. They designed 3 dungeons per patch and removed a whole dungeon in 3.0. Going forward we are going down to one every other patch. Not to mention 74 weeks from 2.0 to 2.5. 83 weeks from 3.0 to 3.5. That is 9 weeks difference and giving them the benefit of the doubt that the huge gap between 2.5 and 3.0 was a sign of future content loss.

Sorry, your going to have to explain what this has to do with the cash shop again.

[Moonlite]

Sorry, your going to have to explain what this has to do with the cash shop again.

The question is extra money goes into the game through a secondary revenue stream not sub based. Yet amount content seems to have lowered. More money should mean more staff should mean more content. Maybe not content I like, but more. Some of the new content extra PoTS and aquaoplis use some assets from already in the game.