Warrior and paying for skills the other two use for free, among other thoughts

[Baci]

Technically that is the strongest conva in Bloodstorm so it's still accurate.

Technically we both know you meant getting the 30% conva from PLD as Cross Role. So no, you are wrong about that

[Atreides]

Must be coincidence that the most arguments that everything's fine as is comes from Paladins. :|

[Bec]

oh my god I just noticed that

[FallenWings]

Must be coincidence that the most arguments that everything's fine as is comes from Paladins. :|

It's no coincidence coming from players that choose Paladin due it its natural inclination as the Iron Wall fantasy.

Most of their arguments are really just reinforcing the idea that Tanks should be what they were in the past rather than what they've become in today's era in almost any game with enjoyable tanking.

I find it funny that PLD is also being theory-crafted to have a upwards of 20% potency lead against WAR and DRK ontop of their plethora of utility skills against WAR's none and DRK's the dankest night.

[Brannigan]

Should I job change to Dark Knight? There's no benefit to me if warrior turns out shitty since I'm not in competition for any group spots - I've played with the same tank pair since like 2.2. I think the OP made some weird arguments. I also think that warrior won't be anywhere near as bad as paladin was in 3.0, and the reason I say this isn't some "it's your turn now" shit, but because even with how shitty paladin was on HW launch, it was still used in very early (maybe first? I don't quite recall) A3S clears. In other words, it'll be fine. If you don't like the gameplay changes w/r/t stance changes, sure, fine, argue about that. DPS might be a little low? Sure, complain about that. Complaining about potencies on specific moves being lower than paladin doesn't hold for me though, since the super hard hitting Goring Blade didn't stop paladin from being bad. Warrior could have an average potency of 900 and it wouldn't matter if the rest of the job was unusable.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Nothing written here is from a player mindset capable of optimizing.

Problem is that your mindset is based completely around optimizing personal dps rather than how the new abilities enhance your ability to perform your role as a tank.

Many of the changes seem to be to be built around making the Warrior more attractive as a MT and granting more utility when not the active tank.

There is so much wrong with WAR gameplay being presented in this post I wonder if you have any experience playing a Warrior at a Savage level.

My perspective is from someone who watched the other tank in his static act mostly as a tougher 5th dps that would sometimes take hits if he had to/I could not rather than as another tank.

Must be coincidence that the most arguments that everything's fine as is comes from Paladins. :|

Well Paladin's were the tanks that tended to focus more on supporting the party rather than focusing on dps.

Most of the Paladin changes are dps related which was the Paladin's biggest problem in HW.
Most of the Dark Knight changes are there to simplify the job and give them some utility when they are not the primary tank.
Most of the Warrior changes are built around them being a tank (both as the primary tank and when they are not) rather than them being a dps.

I find it funny that PLD is also being theory-crafted to have a upwards of 20% potency lead against WAR and DRK ontop of their plethora of utility skills against WAR's none and DRK's the dankest night.

I find it funny that much of the Warrior and Dark Knight's potential new utility is being down played because we have not idea on what SB's content will be like and the Paladin's dps gain is likely exaggerated due to the simplicity of mapping it out.

[Atreides]

Most of the Paladin changes are dps related which was the Paladin's biggest problem in HW.

No, the biggest problem was that they couldn't take many magic based tank busters. Thats why no one wanted a PLD in A12 for example a DRK had a much easier time with cooldown management.
Thats the reason why PLD kills in A12S were almost nonexistent until Echo was introduced. It was never about the damage.

[Cabalabob]

Nothing written here is from a player mindset capable of optimizing. There is so much wrong with WAR gameplay being presented in this post I wonder if you have any experience playing a Warrior at a Savage level.

You mean the stormblood savage level that isn't out yet and we have no idea about? People are so stuck on how the game works now that they can't look at the bigger picture.

Dps in stormblood may not be the end all be all requirement for savage content, checks may be lower to the point where tank dps is negligible, we may see tank busters that have debuffs or even just regularly spammed debuffs from bosses/adds making shake it off a great utility, there may be adds spawning all over the place making onslaught great for WAR to zip around the arena picking them up, inner release would be useful already, who knows how it will be in Stormblood?

WAR has some great utility now, even if it comes at a cost to dps. At the end of the day it's a case of "do you need to do your job? Use onslaught, upheaval and shake it off. Do you not need to do your job? Spam fell cleave".

[Tovaras]

You mean the stormblood savage level that isn't out yet and we have no idea about? People are so stuck on how the game works now that they can't look at the bigger picture.

Yeah, you know the one with the new Super Savage which will be even harder than normal Savage? You think we won't need tank and healer DPS contribution for that? Do you have any experience raiding?

My perspective is from someone who watched the other tank in his static act mostly as a tougher 5th dps that would sometimes take hits if he had to/I could not rather than as another tank.

Right, so no WAR experience. You proved my point. Thanks.

[Cabalabob]

Yeah, you know the one with the new Super Savage which will be even harder than normal Savage? You think we won't need tank and healer DPS contribution for that? Do you have any experience raiding?

In stormblood? No I don't, because again, it's not out yet. There are other ways they can make content hard than dps checks.