Warrior 4.0 Concerns

[aleph_null]

I suspect that people may be seriously overestimating Shirk and Diversion. As for Nin's utilities? They might just become reasons for others to chose other cross-role skills rather than grab Shirk or Diversion.

I suspect that people may be seriously overestimating dps' aggro generation. Either of us are simply speculating based on the str scaling nerf and dps rotation potencies so we could very well be wrong. Considering the stance switching cost (dps wise), if dps' aggro generation is really very high nin will just become a guaranteed pick again, just like now. Shirk could be very powerful combined with provoke since you'd be duplicating aggro (OT shirks MT > OT provokes off MT > MT shirks OT, then repeat for the next tank swap, and so on), it will be useful in the long run, but probably not so much during opener.

[aqskerorokero]

People who dismiss the WAR complaints about stance dancing haven't put the thought in to see what the true cost of losing half your gauge means. We're talking 50 points, or two combos, or 6 GCDs when you swap from 100 points.

"But then spend all your points before swapping."

That puts us in another poor situation where now we are stuck rebuilding stacks in Defiance with a damage penalty. The 20% damage penalty over 6 GCDs to get us to 50 in Defiance for an Inner Beast would be an even larger potency loss than the loss of swapping from 100 down to 50 to have 50 left to Inner Beast.

It also just "feels" bad to play, which is going to hinder new tanks.

Never pass your mind that you can stance dance when the gauge is empty XD?

[Ultimatecalibur]

I suspect that people may be seriously overestimating dps' aggro generation. Either of us are simply speculating based on the str scaling nerf and dps rotation potencies so we could very well be wrong. Considering the stance switching cost (dps wise), if dps' aggro generation is really very high nin will just become a guaranteed pick again, just like now.

True, but I doubt it.

Shirk could be very powerful combined with provoke since you'd be duplicating aggro (OT shirks MT > OT provokes off MT > MT shirks OT, then repeat for the next tank swap, and so on), it will be useful in the long run, but probably not so much during opener.

That combo (while strong) takes up two of both tank's role skill slots. Several of those skill slots might be better served in a fight by other choices.

[Starkbeaumont]

You've obviously never used bloodbath in an AoE situation before, even just bloodbath+vengeance+overpower spam is enough to not have to be healed for most of the pull. If you throw a berserk into the mix, you literally don't have to be healed for as long as bloodbath lasts.

have you? cause you are not healing yourself for as much as you might think. once vengeance falls of your healer has to step in. on top of that your tp won't last that much longer either.

[aleph_null]

True, but I doubt it.

That combo (while strong) takes up two of both tank's role skill slots. Several of those skill slots might be better served in a fight by other choices.

Well if it's true that dps will have really high aggro generation my static will probably bring a nin, problem solved.

As for role skills, it's not like the other options are really good anyway. Stun/silence are situational, you can slot them in when you need them. Awareness is quite meh other than in fight with guaranteed crits. Anticipation is most likely useless. Ultimatum is either unnecessary or absolutely necessary, swap with provoke depending on whether you need it. That leaves you with provoke, conva, shirk, rampart and reprisal. Depending on the amount of aggro dps generates I'd consider swapping shirk out for stun/silence when needed, but most likely conva would go out first since it's highly situational, and losing it probably wouldn't cost as much healer dps than the tanks lose by having to repeatedly use aggro combo.

Never pass your mind that you can stance dance when the gauge is empty XD?

The only time that works is when you're about to IB a tank buster and swap into deliverance, otherwise when IB is not needed you'll just waste your gauge on an unneeded mitigation/heal. On the other hand when you need to go into defiance for mitigation, using up your gauge means you need to build it over from 0, which takes at least 6 gcds for one IB, so it's not worth it (25% dmg reduction on 6 gcd vs losing 1 fell cleave). The current war pull rotation works really well because the stacks you build during defiance transfers to deliverance with no penalty, so after your butcher's block combo you can switch to deliverance and start using fell cleave. Let me know if you have figured out a good 4.0 rotation for pulling in defiance and swapping into deliverance without delaying berserk for too long.

[Tovaras]

Never pass your mind that you can stance dance when the gauge is empty XD?

I swear to god you didn't even read the post you replied to

[bswpayton]

I suspect that people may be seriously overestimating dps' aggro generation. Either of us are simply speculating based on the str scaling nerf and dps rotation potencies so we could very well be wrong. Considering the stance switching cost (dps wise), if dps' aggro generation is really very high nin will just become a guaranteed pick again, just like .

I agree as seen in videos the dps damage didnt look that much higher than it is currently just like the tanks damage didnt. Alot of dps are losing potency on their attacks , as well as losing buffs, every job has basically one. I see nothing changing from how it is now, other than job skills changing in general, they didnt just change tanks they changed every job in the game pretty much for better or for worse.

[CupDeNoodles]

...

I don't know man. I pull packs in expert dungeons all the time. With all my offensive and defensive cool downs popped blood bath is more than enough to keep me alive the entire fight if the DPS are doing their thing correctly and obliterating everything before my blood bath wears off. Keep in mind that this requires the DPS to know the proper AoE rotation. lol I often times even sit still and take AoE to the face if I have melee in the group just so they aren't moving around too much and screwing with the positioning.

At the end of the fight I also switch into deliverance just so I can regain TP for the next pack.

I really think the only thing removing blood bath is going to do is make these dungeons last even longer than before. Which is nonsense.

[CupDeNoodles]

I also feel like Upheaval wouldn't be very useful in it's current state outside of maybe raiding. It's tie to HP is pretty bad on top of the cost to rage. I've had healers tunnel vision while trying to DPS and let my HP drop significantly before throwing out a heal. For this skill to be useful I believe the tie to HP really needs to be dropped.

I would also like to add that if these changes make people drift away from warrior and coupled with the fact that they aren't introducing new tanking jobs those DPS que times are gonna be even more terrible than predicted.

[MagiusNecros]

Upheaval will only be good if it scales with HP. Which it probably only scales with percentage of HP therefore hot garbage.