Warrior 4.0 Concerns

**CupDeNoodles** · 06-06-2017 01:26 PM

"Potency decreases as own HP decreases."

Does not mention the amount but I would imagine that to be at it's best potency you would need to be at full HP or near full HP. I really dislike skills that rely on healers paying too much attention to the tanks HP.

The Paladin version was bad because of the HP penalty and the Warrior version is even worse. Even more now that we've lost most of our self healing abilities.

Edit: Should have removed the HP penalty from Spirits Within but kept it on Upheaval WITH blood bath as a means to heal. That, I think, would have made more sense. Or even add a healing factor to Upheaval that will allow for HP management kinda like Inner Beast heals.

**Hierro** · 06-06-2017 03:24 PM

So I've been playing around with numbers, seeing how many GCDs until 100 beast gauge, and find ways to use upheaval within those time windows.

I'd love some feedback here

anyways, I saw that when building up to 100, the fastest and most pratical thing is to storm's eye, path, path, then eye again. This way your SE buff will be ready for the berserk window where SP and FC is used. I used xeno's early drafted WAR berserk rotation where he uses inner release for 6 fell cleaves, a path combo, and upheaval.

Later I accounted for the next 40 seconds until the following berserk with 5 combos, this time going for 3 eye combos, 2 path combos, and an upheaval thrown in between. I calculated this should put you at 37.5 seconds, where the next gcd would be heavy swing followed by berserk, and neatly at 100 gauge with SE being used jsut before reaching 100.

I drafted a normal berserk rotation with 4 fell cleaves and two SP combos and an upheaval. From there, the cycle somewhat repeats itself going from the rotation after the opener.

Now, some observations. Is it just me, or does fell cleave not see usage unless in a berserk window?

Xeno played around with the idea that a rotation of sorts would look like (berserk+inner release>infuriate>zerk>repeat) though he wasn't entirely sure if infuriate could be used at all between berserks.

Now, my little theorycrafting isn't showing a window where fell cleave or infuriate can or should be used outside of a berserk window, and I'm not sure if it's worth using them anyways to lose out on that gauge and crit and be thrown off in timing for berserk. It might be usable in some cases where the next infuriate would be back loaded, that then that might throw timing off. Of course, this is all assuming a static dps dummy fight, and that's not how the world works, but I feel this is a peak into what's ahead, and more importantly, hints at the under-utilization of infuriate's cooldown reduction passive.

I'm seeing that 60% of the time we'll be spamming only SE or SP with a single oGCD in the form of upheaval tossed in until our berserk window where we blow everything, but that's not very exciting. Sure, today's WAR might not have much, but at least it's much more engaging to toss in fracture and use fell cleaves outside of berserk with the added brutal swings to play with. Now it's just looking bland.

What do you guys think?

**aleph_null** · 06-06-2017 05:17 PM

You need 30s to build up 100 gauge (as you said, eye path path eye), and berserk lasts for 20s, that's 50s so you have 10s before the next berserk is ready. Also note that potency/gauge wise, upheaval is better than fell cleave, and it doesn't take a gcd, so obviously it takes priority over fell cleave. I haven't done the math to determine if we should use infuriate out of berserk, since we only get 20s reduction even with inner release active (10s for every other berserk), it'll just misalign and disrupt your subsequent berserk rotation.

**Bdyer** · 06-06-2017 11:48 PM

On the lower potencies, I would remind that warrior is the only one with the +20% constant buff from storms eye, no other tank has that inherent buff in their weaponskills. So multiply all potencies by 1.2. Suddenly a storms path potency of 312 isn't so bad.....

**Liyonn** · 06-07-2017 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Bdyer

On the lower potencies, I would remind that warrior is the only one with the +20% constant buff from storms eye, no other tank has that inherent buff in their weaponskills. So multiply all potencies by 1.2. Suddenly a storms path potency of 312 isn't so bad.....

But you have to keep in mind, we're the only ones that have to keep a buff like that up. We used to be able to ignore it but now that it's on Eye we have to make sure it doesn't drop ever. Not to mention 312 doesn't at all compare to Royal Authority's 370 potency with them having to do nothing to reach that.

**Launched** · 06-07-2017 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Bdyer

On the lower potencies, I would remind that warrior is the only one with the +20% constant buff from storms eye, no other tank has that inherent buff in their weaponskills. So multiply all potencies by 1.2. Suddenly a storms path potency of 312 isn't so bad.....

DRK has Darkside. Permanent 15% buff in HW, 20% in SB.

**vigioX-Sun** · 06-07-2017 01:08 AM

penalty on offensive tanking a boss?
why will this ever be a thing?, this is the Golden times for offensive tanking since healers got DPS now scale on MND,if there is a time for offensive stance tanking this is it.

back to warrior concerns:
So many changes the game bring now but war change is too much, there is a few things that must be change to keep war fun an rewarding to play.
1- remember I use to dance all night for free? too bad the club charge an entrance fee now.give us back stance dancing, this is a war thing for 2 years, why change it now? or instead of using rage make it use MP, at least we will have a use for it.
2-Storm path effect is our group ability , is an identity to war to apply this to bosses/raid groups, why take it?, i understand it goes to tank skills, but this is our raid utility reduce 5% but keep it there, this make rotations an planing a lot more engaging.
3-bloodbath/mercy stroke really ? MRD skills i been using since day 1 back in 2010..like take one of the 2 , but not the 2 of them, geez what im playing PLD? i want a WAR.
4-yep why punch me in the face with shake it off?, i been getting pacify for 6 years an now you give me something to use for issues yet you reduce my berserk an remove pacify,maybe for the best but anyways you get my point, are you laughing at me right now?
5-FINALLY SHOULDER TACKLE thats how i call it because i use to cross class skill with monk until you trow me in the pack, finally i can charge to my enemies yahooo this is great why will it not be good?,...haa wait a sec it cost 20rage...hoo what i shame i guess i will sprint instead.
6-Warriors are born, not made...you removing a lot of things that make us Wars,--- war identity on a weird position, the amount of skill lost for self sustains heals is incredible, we got 6 fell cleves..horray wi will also be happy with 5 cleves( an berserk 40% & pacify so I can shake it off!) if we get to keep our skills you took away

**Bdyer** · 06-07-2017 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Launched

DRK has Darkside. Permanent 15% buff in HW, 20% in SB.

You have to compare berserk 10%, fight or flight 15% and dark side 20% together.

Running calculations average potency per attack (no ogcds attacks):
In deliverance potency per attack: 427.9
In sword oath: 411.95
Outside of grit (assume 1 da and bs per combo): 378.

Seems drk is to looser

**Hierro** · 06-07-2017 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by aleph_null

You need 30s to build up 100 gauge (as you said, eye path path eye), and berserk lasts for 20s, that's 50s so you have 10s before the next berserk is ready. Also note that potency/gauge wise, upheaval is better than fell cleave, and it doesn't take a gcd, so obviously it takes priority over fell cleave. I haven't done the math to determine if we should use infuriate out of berserk, since we only get 20s reduction even with inner release active (10s for every other berserk), it'll just misalign and disrupt your subsequent berserk rotation.

10s until the next berserk after 50 seconds? I don't know how you came to that. I'm assuming berserk gets used only when there's 100 gauge to get the most out of inner release,as in, at the start of the 30s mark. If it's on a 1 min. CD, you'd have to wait until the 90 second mark to use it again, as in, 40 seconds until berserk comes up again after it ends the first time.

**aleph_null** · 06-07-2017 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Hierro

10s until the next berserk after 50 seconds? I don't know how you came to that. I'm assuming berserk gets used only when there's 100 gauge to get the most out of inner release,as in, at the start of the 30s mark. If it's on a 1 min. CD, you'd have to wait until the 90 second mark to use it again, as in, 40 seconds until berserk comes up again after it ends the first time.

I mean, after you finish your berserk, it'll be 40s until you can berserk again, but you need around 30s to build up 100 gauge again, so that's around 10s gap between reaching 100 gauge and using berserk again.

It will look like this:

0s-30s: build 100 gauge for first berserk
30s-50s: first berserk window, 1 upheaval soon as berserk starts
50-60s: build 20 gauge for 1 upheaval
60-90s: build 100 gauge for second berserk
90s-110s: second berserk window, rinse and repeat

I don't know how this rotation will work considering raid buffs etc are usually used earlier than 30s into the fight, but I'll have to wait until the other jobs' openers are finalized before I can say anything about that. As of now I don't know for instance when nin will trick attack with their new skills, and so on.

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