Are role actions a nerf?

[Hamada]

Many of your "must haves" currently are not necessarily "must have" when you actually look at the whole list.

• Swiftcast is only mandatory if someone dies.
• Lucid Dream (Cross Role Shroud of Saints) will only be "necessary" if you have enmity and/or MP troubles.
• Esuna is only necessary if there is a debuff that must be removed by it.
• Protect will only be mandatory if a party needs the damage reduction gained from it. (a fair amount of content does not need it when current but it is nice)
• Cleric Stance will be nice but not necessary being a 5% damage for 15s every 90s.
• Affection (Cross Role action with Divine Seal icon) with only be mandatory (if it is a direct copy of Divine Seal) only when you need the boosted heals to keep your party alive.
• Eye for an Eye will be useful when raiding like it currently is.
• Surecast is getting buffed to stop Sleep, Stun, Knockback and pulls in addition to preventing interruptions. Be prepared to join Paladin's in cheesing fights like Sophia.
• Rescue will be useful when you have dps that do not dodge AoEs.
• Break will be useful in any fight that you need to slow down an advancing enemy like in T5.

Note SB may change this with the supposed skill gap fixes but:

Swiftcast:
Not only does it need to help raise but it is REQUIRED to have as a SCH, a MUST, ast and whm not as much but if bad things happen and I need to heal more though Dissipation, well it is a need.

Lucid Dream (Cross Role Shroud of Saints) will only be "necessary" if you have enmity and/or MP troubles.
Always needed in DF, you are going to run in low skill more often then not, making it a need to use for hate issues or use to DPS more as a healer to make up DPS lacking DPS.

Esuna is a need, paralyses means DPS loss. healing though poison is a DPS loss. I wanted leeches at 18 not 40, because of these issues.

Protect is a need, less damage taken means more room for DPS.

Cleric stance, I can't say.

Funny how you label eye for eye as more useful then above, but is a need in large pulls regardless.

No idea with surecast

no idea about rescue without seeing it in game
break , same as^

Problem is people were going into content without skills they needed. Like if you go into an EX Primal as a tank you should have Provoke no questions asked.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._makes_you_an/

People need to stop over rushing in general, I wonder if japan servers have mass problems with ilevel bypassing problems or gimping it up ability wise.

[Neophyte]

One time again... you can't decide now if a skill will be mandatory. Period.
You can't evaluate the toolkit of any job at this point.

Why do you even think they didn't name Lucid Dream Shroud of Saints? They did name Cleric Cleric and E4E is still E4E and Esuna is Esuna.
Same with Divine Seal. Why do you think those are renamed?

Do we still have a skill named Shroud of Saints and Divine Seal and what does they do? Maybe you don't run in mp issues if following a certain job mechanic correctly?

[Fawkes]

Why do you even think they didn't name Lucid Dream Shroud of Saints? They did name Cleric Cleric and E4E is still E4E and Esuna is Esuna.
Same with Divine Seal. Why do you think those are renamed?

Do we still have a skill named Shroud of Saints and Divine Seal and what does they do? Maybe you don't run in mp issues if following a certain job mechanic correctly?

Esuna's icon was blue and was changed to a blue version of the icon for scholar's "Leeches" skill that does the same thing. Lucid Dream's icon is a purple version of Shroud of Saints' icon, and AST's equivalent skill Luminiferous Aether is purple. And Lucid Dream has the exact same effect as Shroud of Saints, but with a longer duration (Luminiferous Aether has a longer duration). The icon and effects are just the two skills mushed together. As for the name, maybe the Japanese name of Shroud of Saints is something more Whitemagey and they wanted a new skill name to better fit all three healers. I don't know why they name things the way they do.


And it's not up to me if other people follow mechanics correctly, I can only heal them if they mess up.

[Neophyte]

And it's not up to me if other people follow mechanics correctly, I can only heal them if they mess up.

I didn't mean "You save MP by others following mechanics".

I meant "Maybe you don't have mp issues if you follow one of your inherent job mechanics".
Like a SCH using Aetherflow and ED now (and with high chance in SB, too).
WHM has freecures. What if the flower-thingie or other skills evolve around something like that?

Maybe if your good at your job you only need the role based mp reg for things were you go full out on holy or with high dps uptime?

[Neophyte]

I mean, am I the only one expecting WHM getting much rework in their base toolkit, like PLD does?

"WHM will just lose SoS and will be screwed always if not slotting the role-based, regardless of content and setup." Aye.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Snip.

Most of your complaints are cases of confusing "Nice to have" with "Necessary to have." Healer DpS is nice but not always necessary.

Swiftcast:
Not only does it need to help raise but it is REQUIRED to have as a SCH, a MUST, ast and whm not as much but if bad things happen and I need to heal more though Dissipation, well it is a need.

You may need to reexamine your Dissipation use, and you don't need to swiftcast summon at the start of a duty.

It is nice but is not required despite your belief that it is required.

Esuna is a need, paralyses means DPS loss. healing though poison is a DPS loss. I wanted leeches at 18 not 40, because of these issues.

Not every fight inflicts esunable status effects. Only reason you really want esuna before 40 is because of how esunable Dot heavy Thousand Maws is. Most other DoTs and Status effects are fairly easy to ignore. A fair few Healers have ignored esunable status effects on me to focus more on their own damage.

Protect is a need, less damage taken means more room for DPS.

Most healers overheal by more than 10%. You won't be losing that much dps from not having it. It will only be needed when the different in damage between having and not having is the difference between someone dying and someone not dying.

Funny how you label eye for eye as more useful then above, but is a need in large pulls regardless.

As a tank I rarely have trouble in large pulls when a healer/summoner fails to use Eye for an Eye on me. Also I said Eye for an Eye will be "useful" not "more useful than other abilities."

Yes, they are all useful. But we can't have them all anymore. And since I won't know in advance if people are going to take lots of damage or die and eat up all my mp, I NEED to be prepared with Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, and Divine Seal.

Which is why your in general selection might look like this:

• Swiftcast
• Lucid Dream
• Appreciation
• Protect
• Esuna

And swap in the other 5 based on your knowledge of what will be useful in the content you are doing.

My general tanking set is likely to be the following.

• Low blow
• Interject
• Either Provoke or Ultimatum depending on player preference
• Rampart
• Convalescence

Protect and a cleanse effect, esuna, or whatever, is a standard for healers in like every mno in existence? (or least in ff) It shouldn't be filling up a limited list of "bonus" abilities.

"Standard" does not equal "always needed." The 5 slot limit of the Cross Role system is more about button bloat limiting than preventing use of common abilities.

[Ama_Hamada]

Most of your complaints are cases of confusing "Nice to have" with "Necessary to have." Healer DpS is nice but not always necessary.

You may need to reexamine your Dissipation use, and you don't need to swiftcast summon at the start of a duty.

It is nice but is not required despite your belief that it is required.



Not every fight inflicts esunable status effects. Only reason you really want esuna before 40 is because of how esunable Dot heavy Thousand Maws is. Most other DoTs and Status effects are fairly easy to ignore. A fair few Healers have ignored esunable status effects on me to focus more on their own damage.



Most healers overheal by more than 10%. You won't be losing that much dps from not having it. It will only be needed when the different in damage between having and not having is the difference between someone dying and someone not dying.


As a tank I rarely have trouble in large pulls when a healer/summoner fails to use Eye for an Eye on me. Also I said Eye for an Eye will be "useful" not "more useful than other abilities."



Which is why your in general selection might look like this:

• Swiftcast
• Lucid Dream
• Appreciation
• Protect
• Esuna

And swap in the other 5 based on your knowledge of what will be useful in the content you are doing.

My general tanking set is likely to be the following.

• Low blow
• Interject
• Either Provoke or Ultimatum depending on player preference
• Rampart
• Convalescence

"Standard" does not equal "always needed." The 5 slot limit of the Cross Role system is more about button bloat limiting than preventing use of common abilities.

You only play tank or something? Do you know what it is like to do things daily as a SCH? swiftcast is a requirement, you can't tell me I need to reexamine my Dissipation use when you do not know what I see, You do not know how much paralyze hurts casting. You do not know how much damage people can take. Protect, esuna, and swfitcast (for SCH) are needs. The only hyperbole are your posts because people are concerned. Someone that only plays tanks has no right to tell healers they shouldn't be.

The only thing that needs reexamining is your prospective.

[Aramina]

Someone that only plays tanks has no right to tell healers they shouldn't be.

The only thing that needs reexamining is your prospective.

I play SCH almost exclusively and of the 3 you mentioned only Swiftcast is a NEED (meaning something you will have use of 100% of the time). Esuna is only useful if there are debuffs that can be removed and Protect is of iffy necessity in dungeons and in raids only "required" for 1 of the 2 healers. You can disagree all you like... but unless you can come up with a way to prove that you NEED esuna even if there is nothing to remove, the reality of the situation is not going to change.

[bswpayton]

I play SCH almost exclusively and of the 3 you mentioned only Swiftcast is a NEED (meaning something you will have use of 100% of the time). Esuna is only

the t hing is actively believing that all of a sudden players will just switch these skills out accordingly is just crazy hell people wont even wait on me to put job skills on my job in potd. Like pretty much most players gona pick five and never look at this list again. Like yea for dungeons your gona need esuna are u gona remember to change that everytime you go into a raid or extreme trial prob not this was a very stupid change to put even half of these things on this list. This cross role system is garbage, and it really smells bad.

[Felis]

the t hing is actively believing that all of a sudden players will just switch these skills out accordingly is just crazy hell people wont even wait on me to put job skills on my job in potd.

This is why I hope that there will be a macro command for choosing the 5 active role skills.