Are role actions a nerf?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

We have seen SMN using a stack to use energy drain. Therefore energy drain can't be a shared action. Nobody has stacks besides SMN and SCH.

Both SMN and SCH use Aetherflow.

As long as Energy Drain is not moved to SMN job kit instead of arcanist ones, SCH has it.

As I said we will still dont have all the info... and again as I said, if Aetherflow still works as it does currently and is still available to SCH, then SCH will not need to take Lucid Dream as a shared role action.

EDIT: I also need to make a potential retraction. It is very possible I have made an error. I assumed that the Drain skill on the caster dps shared role actions was a replacement for the ACN/SMN/SCH Energy Drain skill. This is very likely not the case which means SCH almost certainly won't need Lucid Dream. So consider my foot in mouth regarding SCH. I'm not too proud to admit when I'm very likely wrong.

[Shougun]

Been reading and wanted to add too, since my comment in the beginning may be taken wrong. Esuna isn't always needed but when it is, it is NEEDED like.. you all die now, every time 100% of the time, dead. lol

And it will absolutely be the point where people will be like "Healer do you have Esuna for this?" before even really getting into the content and if the healer be like "you don't pay for my sub".. it'll have to be a kick or the content /will not be completed/.

Swiftcast is just super important because waiting out the raise time can be really bad, since people don't die when its quiet and that means wasting the time in a moment where everything is hitting the fan is a bad situation. So I would imagine that swiftcast is almost always mandatory unless your team is super boss and never makes mistakes, its just so useful otherwise.

Esuna definitely not required 24/7, and probably quite a few other skills depending on the situation, the only thing is people will hopeful become accepting of switching their loadout as it will be important to be more flexible now. Cause like.. doom doesn't care who paid for who's sub.

Looks like there is some option which is interesting, but of course like all options sometimes you get told what to do anyways lol. I imagine healers will "adjust" better but I'm curious how some of the other spells will go down lol. Like one of the players runs out of TP but no one has goad activated, so the DD get raged at for not adjusting.

It's definitely a pro/con situation to have options, and I don't think it has to be bad (we have a lot more options than I expected, I expected there would be none.. that actually pleasantly surprised me a bit) but hopefully our community can adjust to this.. as there will be times you either picked the wrong abilities or people will deem that you have.

[Blueyes]

Originally, upon hearing about the new role action system, my assumption was that the element of choice would be completely removed. Meaning the concept of picking and choosing specific actions would no longer be a factor. Now at first that might sound like a bad thing, but keeping in mind the goal of removing the need to level specific jobs for specific actions, hear me out.

Looking at tanks as an example, currently Provoke is something Paladin learns at level 22. What I imagined was that, upon reaching level 22 on either Warrior or Dark Knight, you would also learn Provoke and it would automatically be added to your hotbar like any other skill learned through leveling up. Now looking at healers; Cure, Protect, Raise, Esuna, all of those could be classified as role skills. A Scholar participating in level 18 content would have access to Esuna just like White Mage or Astrologian because that is the level Esuna is learned as a healer role skill, no longer needing to tie healer related actions to Arcanist in order for Scholar to have those at lower levels.

Now maybe some people like the element of choice with this new system, or perhaps SE was more focused on this being a solution to giving each role ten actions while only needing to keep five on the hotbar at any given time, but the new system seems to have caused a degree of dismay. I'm not necessarily saying that one approach would have been better than the other, although it wouldn't be impossible for the two systems to coexist. Protect can be a spell that all healers learn at level 8 whereas the new Eye for an Eye is something you can choose whether or not you want to equip, as an example.

[AlexSag]

Until we see the new fights, and how things really pan out, we can't be sure if this change ends up being a buff or a nerf for a particular job.

One thing it seems to do, is to allow the devs to build fights where certain actions are necessary without having to worry about discriminating for or against any particular job.

[Arutan]

The issue here is that we still have 5 slots just like shared skills, last one being obtained at lvl 48. Why no more slot between 50 to 70? Was it so complicated to add 1 slot at lvl 59 and one at lvl 69 when you actually revamped it all? Why not just put a goddamn slot at 10 20 30 40 50 60 70?

[bswpayton]

the more i look at my hot bars i realize i have forsight and bloodbath on all three tanks is rampart suppose to be my oonly main cool down wtc se come on like dont take cool downs away on a tank

[Aramina]

Can you recall every specific encounter that has a debuff you can remove and which doesn't? Can you guarantee you wont get one of the ones requiring cleansing in a roulette? Is your group expected to wait for your cooldown to swap into Esuna when you end up in content that does have debuffs to remove? Which skill are you going to replace with Esuna when you do swap? Will you swap at the beginning of a dungeon that has debuffs or just at specific fights within that dungeon?

Yes. I would expect my group to wait (assuming there is still a wait since there seems to be some discussion about whether that is still the case), just as I would wait for them if they needed to make a skill adjustement. We are talking the matter of a few seconds, it's not a big deal.... even in DF.

[AstralKaos]

The whole thing just seems like they removed certain useless skills, added new ones, then took old skills and put them in this new thing. In the end it hasn't fixed the so-called problem of cross-class skills so much as remixed it; and I'm not the only one who doesn't see having to switch cross-role skills depending on duty as a good thing - at all, especially with previous examples in hand (PvP actions...) where they launched with no hotbar/skill/ set list; and once they did finally add it, it wasn't a good number meaning you still had to juggle different sets about (this won't be as bad, but it's still a whole lot of swapping around).

I find it bizarre that Esuna is even on the list, as all healers have an Esuna... what was so bad about it staying that way - aside from SCH getting their version way later.

This whole thing just reeks of busy work - a change-not-really-a-change - to me. There's two doors on a building front, each going in the same lobby, each one separated by a two-foot wall, the logical choice for the person who wishes to go in the other door to what he's currently in front of is to just hop the wall - but instead, for reasons unknown he went all the way around the building, wasting time, to arrive at the same destination; it was just an alternate and more elaborate way of doing the same thing.

[Aramina]

I'm not the only one who doesn't see having to switch cross-role skills depending on duty as a good thing - at all

I guess, for me, it's because coming from being a higher-end raider on WoW I was used to changing talents between bosses (and during hard progression a lot of times between pulls of the *same* boss), I don't see it in a negatively light at all... in fact I prefer being able to customize (to an extent) for what I am tackling at that particular time.

[Derio]

They haven't fixed the problem. IMO other than cleric stance they have made it worse. I hope they adjust it before the 16th.