Are role actions a nerf?

[Hamada]

The problem is the number of abilities that many feel ARE mandatory in the shared role action list, basically limiting or outright removing any choice at all.

What do I consider mandatory for me as a healer?Protect - Assuming it does in 4.0 what it does now, healers will be the only ones able to provide this buff.

Swiftcast - Assuming resses aren't made instant cast by default.

Lucid Dream - Assuming each healer isn't getting its own mp recovery tool (and why would they when the goal was to prune things)

Esuna - I consider the ability to cleanse debuffs essential.

That's four out of five picks I can't live without. And if Affection (the ability using the Divine Seal icon) turns out to be Divine Seal and that WHM has lost Divine Seal as a default skill, I'd be VERY hard pressed to choose any of the other choices over it. My role as a healer means that I need to be the best healer I can be and that means having all the tools I feel I need to perform that role.

Now you might say I am making a lot of assumptions here, but I say so are you. You're assuming we'll be getting replacements for all these skills moved into shared role skills or things will change so much that we won't "need" them, and I say that's a hell of an assumption. I can only go by what SE has shown so far. And what they have shown me is that 4 out of 5 of my shared role actions "choices" have already been made for me... 5 if Affection turns out to be Divine Seal, so no choices at all. I'll happily endure any embarrassment if it turns out I am being overly concerned for nothing, but right now I think I am justified with my concern.

I would argue you're giving SE far more of the benefit of the doubt than many people feel inclined to do. After all, while there's no indication that abilities shifted to role-based skills are as mandatory as they are now, there's ALSO no indication that they aren't - and SE is not exactly well-known for flawlessly-balanced changes right out of the box.

Lest we forget, this is the same development team that seemed oblivious to the flaws inherent in Diadem gear upon release, the same development team that cherry-picks Steps of Faith and Pharos Sirius and declares it to be definitive evidence that challenging (non-Savage) dungeons are bad, the same development team that just relocated servers across the continent and issued an utterly ridiculous statement about there being "no discernable difference" in gameplay if your ping remains below 200ms. They CONSTANTLY make decisions that run the gamut from poorly-implemented to dumb to counter-productive. That's why many of us are viewing these role-based skills with a degree of skepticism.

Another way to look at it is this: the best-case scenario is that SE modified all of these role-based skills, and that they now provide optional 'boosts' to existing abilities. At which point - again, best-case scenario - we basically have the exact same system as we have now, minus the need to level other jobs. I'd still say that's a missed opportunity.

In a worst-case scenario, SE hasn't modified the role-based skills, and we are now staring at a tidal wave of problems centering around the fact that multiple required abilities must now be manually selected by players who might not realize they're essential.

Given the possible gains and possible problems, I think basing our concerns around "I use X ability all the time in Stormblood" is quite reasonable for the moment, pending additional information.

these are good posts that make me worry if role actions are a nerf. Also I am concerned about DPS output balance. Can brd keep up without blood for blood and internal release? MCH without blood for blood and hawk eye for wildfire? I do understand MCH is likely much different then we know now, but does SE truly understand what we can do with rotations? will this lead to no x job allowed to do x content?

Why are healers losing protect and esuna as default? that makes no sense at all. (and maybe losing mp recovery tool and dive seal?) does this make AST too op with synergy on top of it?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

these are good posts that make me worry if role actions are a nerf. Also I am concerned about DPS output balance. Can brd keep up without blood for blood and internal release? MCH without blood for blood and hawk eye for wildfire? I do understand MCH is likely much different then we know now, but does SE truly understand what we can do with rotations? will this lead to no x job allowed to do x content?

Why are healers losing protect and esuna as default? that makes no sense at all. (and maybe losing mp recovery tool and dive seal?) does this make AST too op with synergy on top of it?

The idea was that there should be a uniform toolkit for each role. Certain skills that these roles were expected to have such as Provoke for all Tanks. Unfortunately they are mixed in with optional skills in the new system, and quite a few "essential" skills eat up those 5 slots. Keep in mind though that "healers" aren't losing protect... Conjurers (and by extension White Mages) are. AST and SCH currently have to cross-class it so nothing changes for them in 4.0 regarding Protect. WHM on the other hand will have to use up a slot for it. But you are correct that all healers are losing their default "cleanse" skill and have to allot one of their 5 picks to have it come 4.0.

Protect is something all healers are currently expected cross-class. I doubt that will expectation will change in 4.0

Esuna is a skill all healers get in one form or another though SCH has to wait far too long for theirs due to it being a job skill gained at 40 and not a default skill gained at 18. I'm fairly certain it will be expected for all healers to have this skill as well.

Lucid Dream is the "one size fits all" MP management tool replacement for Shroud of Saints, Luminous Aether, and maybe Aetherflow as well (I am unsure if SCH are keeping Aetherflow or if it will still recover MP). needless to say, healers are generally expected to be able to manage their mp without outside help. If SCH keeps Aetherflow as is, then Lucid Dream is an optional (and likely useless) ability for them freeing up a pick. WHM and AST absolutely need this... and SCH will too if they lose mp recovery via Aetherflow. SCH is already guaranteed losing mp recovery from Drain (which is becoming a caster dps role skill).

I don't think skills like Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes etc are essential. Those skills are merely short term self buffs that can be made up for by numbers tuning for each job. If BRD or MCH dps is seen a too low by the devs without those buff they can simply increase the potency of their skills to compensate rather than add more buff actions for them. But most people expect healers to be able to provide Protect, instantly res,and remove debuffs, just as they expect tanks to be able to taunt loose mobs or be able to pick up a boss for a tank swap.