Are role actions a nerf?

[Hamada]

... I am confused by your response.

You begin by stating that it doesn't result in creating builds for different team compositions or encounters. Then you follow it up bylisting examples of using different builds in different encounters.

I think there will be a few skills that are pretty much an always take (i.e. Swiftcast + Lucid Dream). That said, even those could be debatable. You could not take swiftcast if say you have it assigned in your raid team that only the Off Heals / SMN does raises (how my static works currently) and maybe MP isn't an issue, because of Mana Shift from the BLM or Ballad from the BRD.

You could look at an encounter and be like, for this, I don't need to debuff, so let's not bring Esuna and I'll bring Cleric Stance for the added DPS burst on adds. Maybe you plan to use Rescue on your BLM to help them get an extra nuke off on the boss to help hit a DPS check and you then rescue them into position for a mechanic. Maybe you don't need rescue and you don't slot it.

I can just see every single one of the skills as situational, and could be planned to use differently with your team.

I can also see a default set of skills to use for the average DF party: Protect, Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, Esuna and Eye for an Eye.

Personally, this is some of the best news for me. I have wanted a system that supports builds/customization for years, and I am glad to see they've added it - even if it's not quite as much as I'd like.

You are not looking at things from the protective I am! You are asking too much for majority of the playrbase! OF COURSE! this is good for the upper skilled:

I underlined this for A REASON! Take a look at this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3354919

Read every post in that thread. There is NO WAY you can sit here and tell me requiring the switching abilities in the middle of runs is not a skill roadblock for most.

It is not going to be fun to enter in a new expansion with new adjustments to jobs when 80% of the population will be unable to figure out how to use the job changes, let alone figure out what abilities to use. There is a 969 page thread for proof on this. Even gearing correctly is too difficult for most, and why they are changing the right side to be based on main stat to begin with. However I am still worried about ilevel dodging weapons and the left like we seen as well.

Personally I think this whole change is going to backfire hilariously.

I mean, think about it: SE has stated they want to (a) reduce button bloat, and (b) make the system more accessible / usable for casual players. Laudable goals, both, assuming they can be effectively achieved. But, it is arguable the nature of the role-based system might worsen both. Consider:

1.) Role-based skills are broad enough that it appears frequent swapping between skill combinations is encouraged. This means that users must integrate most or all of the Role-based skills onto their hotbars, rather than just the five I'd use now, all of which are relatively static.

2.) Role-based skills being flexible and guaranteed means the floodgates will be opened for players being told how to play. Think that situation is bad now? Wait until tanks start bitching at healers for not having Esuna selected. Wait until people wipe because the tank forgot to respec from a damage-oriented setup they were using for solo'ing. This isn't going to lead to a friendlier environment for casual or forgetful players.

Don't get me wrong, I think the role-based skill system is potentially a good idea - but it doesn't fix the problem. They've essentially removed the need to level other jobs, but shifted even MORE crucial abilities into optional skills. Healers in 3.x need to have Swiftcast, but now they need to make damned sure they've selected Esuna, too - and heaven help them if they don't. This would have worked a hell of a lot better if the role-based skills were optional things that gave non-crucial, but nonetheless useful, abilities. They should have behaved like Merit Point abilities in FFXI. Hell, they could have even allowed for the selection of a role-based Trait or two, something powerful, so people could really customize how their class felt. Instead, they've worsened almost all the problems of the cross-class system; the only thing they fixed (and it's debatable if this is a good thing or not) is the fact that players no longer have to level separate jobs they might not be interested in.

Truly a missed opportunity.

With what we are told, it is not a good system, at all You are missing the point and only reflecting what you can do with it. It is a skill roadblock for most, and they will not enjoy being told what to do by those that do, again this is repeated over and over that thread as well, and pointed out as a concern in that quote.

[Kaurie]

@Hamada,

I don't think that people should be swapping mid dungeons. It may happen at first, as people realize what they do/don't need. However, once you've run a dungeon, you know if you need Esuna for it or not. I am thinking that you'll take 5 core spells in DF, and then work with statics for planned cross role skills.

[Aramina]

It is not going to be fun to enter in a new expansion with new adjustments to jobs when 80% of the population will be unable to figure out how to use the job changes, let alone figure out what abilities to use.

I have never been a fan of catering to the lowest common denominator. That said, I think you (and others) are putting way too much emphasis on that thread, even at nearly 1000 pages it is a small small fraction of all the stories (good, bad, and neutral) of dungeons done every day. I don't think the unwashed masses are nearly as terrible as you seem to think.

[bswpayton]

I have never been a fan of catering to the lowest common denominator. That said, I think you (and others) are putting way too much emphasis on that thread, even at nearly 1000 pages it is a small small fraction of all the stories (good, bad, and neutral) of dungeons done every day. I don't think the unwashed masses are nearly as terrible as you seem to think.

hahah thats funny , do u know how many tanks i run into that dont seem to know what a cool down is, how many healers that never use regen , how many players dont read tool tips. how many players that dont use healing buffs divine seal, rousing the fairy, and o god I can see it now all the horrible drks now having to manage mp and watch a gauge in side of the corner to save us all , even tho I like the gauges actually but I can see it now

[Aramina]

hahah thats funny , do u know how many tanks i run into that dont seem to know what a cool down is, how many healers that never use regen , how many players dont read tool tips. how many players that dont use healing buffs divine seal, rousing the fairy, and o god I can see it now all the horrible drks now having to manage mp and watch a gauge in side of the corner to save us all , even tho I like the gauges actually but I can see it now

No, I don't. All I can say is I must have the luck of the Irish because I can count on my fingers how many truly awful runs I have had. If all of your runs are that bad maybe you need to think of what they all have in common.

[Kaurie]

hahah thats funny , do u know how many tanks i run into that dont seem to know what a cool down is, how many healers that never use regen , how many players dont read tool tips. how many players that dont use healing buffs divine seal, rousing the fairy, and o god I can see it now all the horrible drks now having to manage mp and watch a gauge in side of the corner to save us all , even tho I like the gauges actually but I can see it now

How is this relevant? If players are not using skills given to them, then what's the argument against selecting which skills you bring?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

I get the feeling that you're crying foul over nothing. We don't know everything about the role system yet, however it will allow us to ensure we have no useless space on our bars, and will let people adapt their own play styles. While I can certainly understand a bit of apprehension and nervousness, the degree of falling sky being shown in this thread is mildly absurd.

I'm not even an upper tier player, I'm lazy and dislike having scheduled meeting times, I just screw around and have fun. If I have a skill that not very useful for a particular boss, like esuna, I very much would want to trade Esuna for a different more useful skill for that fight. Where's the big deal?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I wonder what the forums will look like if we start seeing healers in dungeons with these as their shared role actions:

Cleric Stance
Break
Rescue
Surecast
Eye for an Eye

"Healer please cast protect", "Sorry, I don't have Protect"
"Healer please remove this debuff", "Sorry, I don't have Esuna"
"Healer, why is it taking so long to res people?", "Sorry, I don't have Swiftcast"
"Healer why aren't you healing?", "My mp ran out and I don't have Lucid Dream"
"So what CAN you do healer?, "Oh I can give myself a 5% damage buff for 15 seconds, zap a mob and slow it, yank the BLM out of his leylines for the lawls, make myself immune to knockbacks and pulls, and give you a defensive buff with a short duration and long cooldown! "

I know this little fiction is ridiculous and hardly likely to ever happen unless someone is trying to troll groups, but the fact that it's even possible is frightening.

[Orbiaus]

Looks like a bad idea to me. Some things seem needed but you can just ignore those things? Well, hope you don't get players that refuse to spec swifcast. It seems a fake choice. I just think you should level a character and get all skills needed instead of this shared nonsense.

[Aquaslash]

Melee DPS lost some vital skills in Blood for Blood and Internal Release. This is potentially a nerf, depending on the final damage readings. We'll have to wait and see