Are role actions a nerf?

[Neophyte]

It's bad IMO especially when it seems they removed Shroud and Divine Seal from WHM. I don't main WHM but I do play it on occasion and I can tell you I used those CDs all the time. Why remove them from WHM and force them to use a space in what is very limited.

Its silly.

The only silly thing is you, not reading my entire post where i specifically state that:

"I don't know about others, but my first thought looking at this is not "Oh no, WHM/AST only have that optional tool or have to rely on others for MP, while SCH will be even more OP regarding ressources with Aetherflow+ED+SoS", but more like "Well, I'm curious what the main-mechanic to manage your ressources will be on AST/WHM and if my playstyle with those jobs affords that additional optional reg"."


Wow, you are using SoS and DS when playing WHM now? Really? Unbelievable, someone uses his jobs abilities!!!

Still doesn't mean that rolebased mp-reg and heal+ is mandatory. It does not mean that the only way for WHM to compensate their "loss" of SoS and DS is to slot it in their role-based skills.
This can also be compensated by adding new skills or reworking skills, leaving the role based SoS as a 2nd optional mp reg.

[Youkulm]

The only silly thing is you

I did read your post.

I'm glad you can be optimistic which is what I'm trying to do. Most of all since I keep saying that i'd hold any real judgement until we actually get the play the game with the new changes. ( if you'd like to actually read my posts instead of jumping to conclusions that'd be excellent. )

I don't understand why you're being so confrontational. I don't think it's all that unreasonable to be concerned.

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Also if you're refering to an earlier post, my post on the last page was my first reply to this thread. It was in direct response to OP. So if you are refering to something between the pages of 2-8, Sorry I didn't read ALL of the discussion from everyone else. I just wanted to reply to OP and apparently im attacked because of it.

Moving along ;p

[TristanBlane]

This is my initial concern as well since moves that jobs should already have will now have to be picked, and a max of five. So I hope they thought this through! I look forward to seeing how it works out.

[bswpayton]

This is my initial concern as well since moves that jobs should already have will now have to be picked, and a max of five. So I hope they thought this through! I look forward to seeing how it works out.

Not only that they actually seemed to remove very useful skills from jobs that used them on a regular basis

[Neophyte]

I did read your post.

I'm glad you can be optimistic which is what I'm trying to do. Most of all since I keep saying that i'd hold any real judgement until we actually get the play the game with the new changes. ( ifyou'd like to actually read my posts instead of jumping to conclusions that'd be excellent. )

I don't understand why you're being so confrontational. I don't think it's all that unreasonable to be concerned.

It is, if you base your concerns on things like
"I used to use ability X very often and it was very vital and now it's a role based skill. That won't work."

As said 3 times now, just look at SCH.

Do you really think SCH will be the only healer with own mp reg (strong enough to likely not have to consider taking the optional) and both AST and WHM will not have anything and run dry within a minute without taking the optional?

Do you really think with the actual approach of devs to bring jobs of the same role 'in line', the WHM as the one with the crappiest MP regen by now will be shafted in MP regen and the devs won't notice that this is against the purpose?

As long as we don't know better there is no indication that abilities shifted over to role based skills are as mandatory as the same skills (by name or icon) once were.

I mean, ypu won't just lose lvl. 6 (CS), lvl. 8 (Protect), lvl. 16 (Esuna), lvl. 38 (SoS) and lvl. 40 (DS) as a WHM and take all 5 back from rolebased because you need them, while SCH only loses lvl 12 (Virus), lvl. 34 (E4E) and lvl. 40 (Leeches), takes those 3 back from rolebased and get OP by just adding a for-WHM-mandatory mp regen plus CS/protect.

They won't just give SCH acces to SoS and done, that's their healer rework, lol.

Also if you're refering to an earlier post, my post on the last page was my first reply to this thread. It was in direct response to OP. So if you are refering to something between the pages of 2-8, Sorry I didn't read ALL of the discussion from everyone else. I just wanted to reply to OP and apparently im attacked because of it.

Moving along ;p

Nope, I was only refering to the qupted post.

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I mean, sure you can think tha the devs suck balls in regards to balancing.
But don't try to back it with "By now in Heavensward not being able to use skill x, y, z would be very bad, so it will most likely be bad in Stormblood to not be able to use the same-in-name optional skills."


Or just look at Cleric Stance.... by now: Most mandatory ability if you want to deal damage.
In Stormblood: A 5% 15s damage buff on 90s CD therefore buffing your outgoing dps by 0,8% (100% damage uptime, instead of lets say 1000 dps you do 1010ish) to 5% (only dpsing when CS is from CD, so maybe from 200->210 dps).
(I'm aware that those calculations are not exact and maybe set a bit low... but not by much)

That doesn't sound as mandatory as before for a dpsing healer, right?

[magnanimousCynic]

As it is, Esuna, Protect, Swiftcast, Eye for Eye are seen are required action for any healer ( when possible ).

Let's be honest, E4E is barely a required skill in most content. It's not something that could make or break your average Expert Roulette.

[SendohJin]

As it is, Esuna, Protect, Swiftcast, Eye for Eye are seen are required action for any healer ( when possible ).

Esuna and Eye for Eye are not required. how do AST do 4 man dungeons if E4E is required?

Lots of dungeons and trials have nothing to Esuna.

[Orbiaus]

Most people won't switch skills for different content either. I know I won't, i'll pick five and that's it.

[magnanimousCynic]

Most people won't switch skills for different content either. I know I won't, i'll pick five and that's it.

I'll probably do the same after a bit of experimentation. Cleric Stance seems too little of a DPS up to make it a must-have. I doubt I'd keep it as a constant Cross Role unless a patch has little Esuna usage. With that in mind, my line-up is probably Protect/Esuna/Swift/Lucid/Cleric OR Divine Seal lookalike. The last slot may vary if the Divine Seal lookalike is the same as it is now. (in terms of just increasing healing done).

[Pomelo]

Well personally as an AST I've always wanted Eye for an Eye, everything else is dependant on what we get as a job to be honest. Cleric Stance sounds utterly lame in this rendition, 5% is good and all but...meh, I hope Celestial Opposition extends it at the least.