Cleric Stance is dead!

[Arrius]

You must realize that this isn't unique to a healer, all jobs need to do this too, aside from their primary role as tank or dps.

For the AST, for example, you also need to draw those cards and debate whenever you want to play/burn/redraw/store them for their maximum effect, choosing for either a quick play or going for the big Arrow/Balance-Time Dilation-Celestial Opposition combo. And I think that's always a interesting mechanic for me to play with whenever I feel for going out as a healer.

DPS classes are more simpler than that : You keep eyes on your positioning, your combos and on your job specific mechanics.
Emnity and health aren't a issue if you have players on those jobs that are worth their salt, and you keep the points above in mind.

[Awful]

DPS classes are more simpler than that : You keep eyes on your positioning, your combos and on your job specific mechanics.
Emnity and health aren't a issue if you have players on those jobs that are worth their salt, and you keep the points above in mind.

I disagree, healers and tanks aren't complicated compared to a DPS to maximize their DPS, good DPS are much harder to play than a tank or a healer. They have to time their buffs, position ahead of time, have 100% uptime while doing mechanics, tanks and healers can get away with it because of their limited combos as for tanks, one is for threat, ones for DPS, no positionals no nothing, same as healers just DoT and hit your nuke. Maximizing and being optimal on a DPS takes time and effort and can really change the dynamic of a group.

[Stormbad]

Well my experience (DF/PF, not talking about statics) is more like:

1. Healers: keeping eyes on the enemy, monitoring player health, your health and your positioning

2. Tanks: keeping eyes on the enemy, monitoring player health, your health and your positioning

3. DPS: keeping eyes on the enemy, monitoring player health, your health and your positioning

I'm exaggerating but still ... how many times I got asked from a DPS: "How did I die?" ... all I can think is: "Oh honey, if you don't know, maybe pay attention!"

Yeah, this is my experience for DF/PF groups as well but this is just you dealing with bad players. I've seen plenty of bad healers in DF/PF that equal the amount of other jobs.

For the AST, for example, you also need to draw those cards and debate whenever you want to play/burn/redraw/store them for their maximum effect, choosing for either a quick play or going for the big Arrow/Balance-Time Dilation-Celestial Opposition combo. And I think that's always a interesting mechanic for me to play with whenever I feel for going out as a healer.

DPS classes are more simpler than that : You keep eyes on your positioning, your combos and on your job specific mechanics.
Emnity and health aren't a issue if you have players on those jobs that are worth their salt, and you keep the points above in mind.

So you are talking about more of try-harder group compared to Tremara above (who was talking about DF/PF groups). In that case, yes, even with astro card mechanics, I agree with the poster you quoted that it still doesn't make the job exciting when one doesn't use all the skills at their disposal. I can give a ton of examples on how other jobs must make decisions, when to blow a cooldown, when to save a gap closer, when to use CDs, when to burn off the remainder of timed buff, etc etc. No matter how you skin it, there really isn't a "this is the most complicated role" type out there.

When I see people make these types of comments in game, I suggest that person try to maximize their potential for one of each archetype and push to at least 95% and see how much their opinions change afterwards.

[Arrius]

I disagree, healers and tanks aren't complicated compared to a DPS to maximize their DPS, good DPS are much harder to play than a tank or a healer. They have to time their buffs, position ahead of time, have 100% uptime while doing mechanics, tanks and healers can get away with it because of their limited combos as for tanks, one is for threat, ones for DPS, no positionals no nothing, same as healers just DoT and hit your nuke. Maximizing and being optimal on a DPS takes time and effort and can really change the dynamic of a group.

Of course I know that DPS Jobs got a load of stuff on their plate as well (I still play a semi-broken, 180ms+ ping post-server move BRD), but they still aren't outshining what healers need to perform when the heat is on in fights, while keeping their own specific mechanics still running.

So when they say something like that they don't feel challenged enough with even that, then probably this isn't the game they are looking for. :/

[Awful]

So when they say something like that they don't feel challenged enough with even that, then probably this isn't the game they are looking for. :/

That was the whole point of Cleric Stance it was that fine line when to DPS and when to heal that was the challenge and reward for good healers. Healers still need to contribute to DPSing as it is built into the game, even with Cleric being gone as a stance it exists as a buff, meaning that they have to carefully use that in conjunction with healing to maximize their role. Just because the ability is gone doesn't mean healers can't be lazy and sit there doing nothing, they should challenge themselves in content that requires everything from healers this includes Savage/EX Primals/Experts.

The problem really boils down to do they want to even push themselves? Because as it stands you can literally DPS as a healer with a fairy or regen and never leave Cleric Stance, most of the community doesn't want to do anything extra or take criticism because it's "their" time and "their" sub when in actuality it's a group effort in DF.

[gaou]

I disagree. The stance dancing was the only interesting aspect to healer dps. This is going to make it so most healing is going to put me to sleep. Spamming Stone 3 and applying 2 dots is hardly compelling gameplay.

I'd say try out Scholar since with the Cleric Stance and MND revamps you could actually apply your dots and spam Broil, avoid the glowing orange danger zones and control Eos. White Mage never really had anything besides a really cute artifact armor.

[Arrius]

That was the whole point of Cleric Stance it was that fine line when to DPS and when to heal that was the challenge and reward for good healers. Healers still need to contribute to DPSing as it is built into the game, even with Cleric being gone as a stance it exists as a buff, meaning that they have to carefully use that in conjunction with healing to maximize their role. Just because the ability is gone doesn't mean healers can't be lazy and sit there doing nothing, they should challenge themselves in content that requires everything from healers this includes Savage/EX Primals/Experts.


The problem really boils down to do they want to even push themselves? Because as it stands you can literally DPS as a healer with a fairy or regen and never leave Cleric Stance, most of the community doesn't want to do anything extra or take criticism because it's "their" time and "their" sub when in actuality it's a group effort in DF.

It is the issue that the community is ready to throw all healers under the bus under the aspect that their damage contribution is mandatory now since the changes on their MIND stat have been announced.
They are forcing a mindset on other players and threaten them with vote dismiss if they don't comply and play the victims in the group, "being taken hostage by a bad healer" were the words I saw somewhere else.

Look, I am fine when healers do either. When they do damage and keep the party topped off and happy - All good, high five from me. If they don't, though I might ask them why, I put the topic to rest.
Yet this witch hunt has to stop. Now. Don't force a playstyle on them when they don't want to.

I believe prior to 3.2, tanks had that issue where the STR stat and warriors were the meta, because damage > all, and it got 'resolved' in a way that made it clear how it should work.
Don't make SE repeat itself on this again.

[Tsumdere]

Yet this witch hunt has to stop. Now. Don't force a playstyle on them when they don't want to.

People can play however they want - that includes me - and I do not want people in my party doing nothing. Ergo, they are gonna get the boot. If they want to do nothing, they need to find a party that lets them do nothing because its not my party.

This is legit the only game where I've seen healers be this lazy. I too, used to play tons of healer in TERA (back in Manaya/Kelsaik/Wonderholme days), and getting healers to DPS was never a problem despite the fact healer DPS in TERA is significantly less than in this game. Same with League - playing a healer (Soraka, Nami, Sona) that only heals gets you reported faster than you can say "GG".

[Ilenya]

Same with League - playing a healer (Soraka, Nami, Sona) that only heals gets you reported faster than you can say "GG".

This is an odd comparison, since those are all Supports, not Healers.

[Arrius]

People can play however they want - that includes me - and I do not want people in my party doing nothing. Ergo, they are gonna get the boot. If they want to do nothing, they need to find a party that lets them do nothing because its not my party.

This is legit the only game where I've seen healers be this lazy. I too, used to play tons of healer in TERA (back in Manaya/Kelsaik/Wonderholme days), and getting healers to DPS was never a problem despite the fact healer DPS in TERA is significantly less than in this game. Same with League - playing a healer (Soraka, Nami, Sona) that only heals gets you reported faster than you can say "GG".

Healer DPS in TERA was always mandatory, as they debuff enemy defenses with specific glyphed spells and have to dispell certain shields on bosses, else they gain a massive defense or damage buff.
As for other healers, older games were more destinct in their holy trinity - As you can see here, being more in a stat buff/healing role with mild crowd control and maybe a dot or two.

I played league for a good while, though I distanced myself from mobas these days due to their toxicity and negative attitude, occasionally playing as support in Overwatch instead.