Forbidden Materia

[grandm]

That's not exactly "balance", really, as 2x +16 STR materias (or +30 Attack Power) materias are going to be inherently "unbalancing." It's ultimately an economic thing to make the dual materia items super rare.

There's a strong argument that this is too punishing though. After all, to get a good materia you need to burn a good item. Just a quick recap of what it takes to get a 2x materia item, if you're lucky.

Get an item to 100% Spiritbond -> Convert to materia
Get an item to 100% Spiritbond -> Convert to materia
Get a 3rd item
Attach materia 1 (100% success)
Attach materia 2 (25% success)

That means that if you fail on the 2nd attachment you are basically throwing away 3 whole items, and not just 3 made items but 3 items you had to put significant effort to grind spiritbond.

For an expected value of items you can expect to burn to get a 2x materia item: 12. That just seems like a LOT of items and possibly too far on the "rarity" spectrum. For 3x materia: 57.

I don't know, but this seems a little ridiculous to me, and while I do understand that dual materia items are incredibly powerful, it doesn't really make them "balanced" by making them more rare, it just makes them less common.

Looking at the Item prices I've seen on my server for things with 2 materia, 8-20m gil... And I understand why, after all it takes a huge effort to get. But with Gil draining from the economy rapidly, and the fact that even level 50 leves only give a mere 6-10k gil, I'm not sure how the economy can sustain itself in this way for too long.

In essence, there won't be enough gil in the system for items with more than 1 materia to be saleable.

you are right, this system does seem very punishing. but it is ment to be. if you are willing to try and get a 3 piece materia item, then its going to cost u alot of money in attempts, this is how its supposed to be, its a money sink. its designed to fail more than it wins. but the wins have a great reward attached. so it entice's you to try. like a fruit machine every1 knows that it don't pay out often but that don't stop ppl putting money in to try and win. why? coz big rewards if u do win. the problem with ff14 is to many ppl are too rich and have nothing to spend there money on. now they do. normal everyday ppl like me can look forward to a one piece materia item. but the super rich will strive for that thing alittle special. this is the way the world works, if you are that rich person that is spending alot of money trying to make a 4-5 materia slot item, then don't complain when it fails coz there are ppl that would love to make a 2 slot item, so think of the little ppl. and if u are like me and can only afford a one slot. don't complain that the rich get better than us. coz look around in real life this is how the world works my friends :P

[Hachiko]

You buy them off people who are looking to make a quick buck and aren't interested in attaching multiple materia.

That has nothing to do with the point or you're forgetting some critical points.

First, spiritbond is wiped if an item is sold. Meaning you can't buy a spiritbonded item already. So you've still got the time investment to grind spiritbond on 2 items.

Second, even if the items are normal quality being made and sold for a quick buck, that's a pretty big gil investment. On my server high end armors still go for around 100-300k gil.

With an expected value of 12 items per dual materia, you're talking 1.2-3.6 million gil to even MAKE a high end item. Add in another materia and you're up to an expected what, 16.8 to 50.4 million gil.

I know the system is in place to reward the hardcore, but I don't think there's anyone that exists that is hardcore enough to deal with the grind of spiritbond on 57 items. Let alone grinding spiritbond on whatever the expected value of 4 materia would be (easily in the several hundred).

Statistically speaking we will probably never see a 4 materia item in the game, ever, unless it's something with cheap materia that you can buy for ~100 gil.

you are right, this system does seem very punishing. but it is ment to be. if you are will to try and get a 3 materia item, then its going to cost u alot of money in atemps, this is how its sposed to be its a money sink. its designed to fail more than it wins. but the wins are a great reward such it entice you to try. like a fruit machine every1 knows that it don't pay out often but that don't stop ppl putting money to try and win. why? coz big reward if u do win. the problem with ff14 is to many ppl are too rich and have nothing to spend there money on. now they do. normal everyday ppl like me can look forward to a one piece materia item. but the super right will strive for that thing alittle special. this is the way the world works, if you are that rich person that is spending alot of money trying to make a 4-5 materia slot item, then don't complain when it fails coz there are ppl that would love to make a 2 slot item, so think of the little ppl. and if u are like and can only aford a one slot. don't complain that the rich get better than us. coz look around in real life this is how the world works my friends :P

Aside from the post being incoherent. People play "fruit machines" (slots, I assume) because they're easy with a low chance of winning. I.E. the lottery.

The problem with the comparison here, and what a lot of people are forgetting, is that this isn't a simple lottery. You're talking betting seriously high value things with an insanely low chance of return. No one in their right mind would buy a $10,000 dollar lottery ticket in real life. Even if the chance of return was similar to the chances in this game (i.e. 1 in 50 to 1 in 30,000).

And to top it off, not only are you gambling with super high stakes things, they're things you had to spend a significant amount of gil to buy or effort to make.

[TheVedis]

Alot of people here just dont understand

This system isnt meant at all for you to get 5 materia into items

It is meant for you to get 1, thats right, 1 and more if lucky(very lucky in some cases)

the game is balanced around no materia
with 1 you become strong
any more then that overpowers you, so why should you easily be able to overpower yourself?

[Hachiko]

Alot of people here just dont understand

This system isnt meant at all for you to get 5 materia into items

It is meant for you to get 1, thats right, 1 and more if lucky(very lucky in some cases)

the game is balanced around no materia
with 1 you become strong
any more then that overpowers you, so why should you easily be able to overpower yourself?

If it's so overpowering to have more than one (or more than 2) why even deal with the inevitable balance headache?

[Hermes]

Two words, one bolded, "Forbidden" Materia.

[Betelgeuzah]

First, spiritbond is wiped if an item is sold. Meaning you can't buy a spiritbonded item already. So you've still got the time investment to grind spiritbond on 2 items.

Why do you need to buy a spiritbonded item?

Second, even if the items are normal quality being made and sold for a quick buck, that's a pretty big gil investment. On my server high end armors still go for around 100-300k gil.

Every price is inflated. Before they stabilize, we don't know what the long-term effects are.

Somebody is making a big buck out of that 100-300k right now. That isn't going to be the case for too long.

[DexteraDomini]

RNG has nothing to do with achieving the best results. Hard work is the only thing it takes. Luck plays no role.

As usual, you completely missed the mark on this one. Kiara is 100% correct. Person A spends hundreds of millions of Gil and hours before they get a 3rd piece attached while person B gets it in one shot. You don't call this luck??? There's always going to be some luck involved but there should be some way for skilled players to increase their chances through the use of their skill instead of just grinding out the gathering process and rolling the dice against the odds.

[Hachiko]

As usual, you completely missed the mark on this one. Kiara is 100% correct. Person A spends hundreds of millions of Gil and hours before they get a 3rd piece attached while person B gets it in one shot. You don't call this luck??? There's always going to be some luck involved but there should be some way for skilled players to increase their chances through the use of their skill instead of just grinding out the gathering process and rolling the dice against the odds.

This is a very important point, also. Though it seems to be somewhat reoccurring theme in XIV, that is that repetition and pure chance are favored highly over other factors.

[Enma]

only 3 materia added.

That's the point! 3 Materia on an equip is a huge advantage. Forbidden Materia it's an hardcore feature, you are not forced to do it.

[Aion]

How do we implement skills in MMO? materia bonding is an individual effort, I just cannot see how to put the melding success rate by skills. Someone will beat the content and other people will follow the exact strategy. luck is the way to go for individual effort for a FORBIDDEN things