Why are summoners so neglected?

[Nalien]

snip

Errr... Maybe I should clarify... I'm not suggesting giving Summoner anything new with this, I'm simply saying change the animations... We're already casting Shadow Flare, I'm simply saying add Odin-Egi to the animation, so it's like we're summoning him to cast Shadow Flare. There is no additional pet we have out, you just maybe change the cast animation to be the summoning one, then have Odin-Egi pop out of the book at the end, throw down his floor based AoE, then poof. He is gone. That's Shadow Flare now. Maybe update the name to reflect that it's an Odin skill now, I really just don't like sharing so much with Scholar at this point, although Shadow Flare doesn't make much sense on Scholar like the whole Virus/Disease theme does...

Between this an Egi-Glamours, I think changing skill animations to involve Egi is more likely to make Summoner feel like it's actively summoning as part of its rotation. I'm already casting Shadow Flare/Bio II/Miasma/etc., there is literally no change to the Job there, it's just now they can look like I'm summoning to cast them... Odin-Egi would pop out for a second, but I wouldn't actually have him as a permanent pet like I do currently with Garuda-Egi.

I'd still like Egi-Glamours, for the same reason I want regular glamours, but at the end of the day glamours only make the Job look right, they don't make it feel right... Casting Bio/Miasma/Bio II doesn't feel like Summoner... Casting Sephirot-Egi/Sophia-Egi/Zurvan-Egi for DoTs, with Tri-Disaster having all three fly out to apply DoTs... That feels like Summoner... Again, no change to Summoner mechanically, it's just the animation for the spells has an Egi in it now, the effects/cast times/etc. can all remain the same, although if we get Phoenix-Egi on Resurrection, I would like it to do some light AoE fire damage... That just feels more like Summoner IMO...

To my knowledge, that isn't how XI Summoner was... That was more like Contagion, you had your pet out and it did its specific skills, and you changed accordingly, though obviously here we have no reason to ever swap, Contagion/Garuda-Egi are king.... I don't want a case where you summon one pet to do one thing, then swap to another to do another, and so on. Change the animations to look like I'm summoning, so my Summoner can actually summon more than once per encounter, and I'm happy. I mean, ideally I'd like to have Summoner work through the elemental wheel while summoning as its rotation, with some mechanic to make swapping pets more fluid, but that'd be far to much of a headache at this point... It took them this damn long to halfheartedly give us Carbuncle (zero new animations and we swap to him with a text command? Did it literally only take them this long to make the quest or something? Christ...), I expect we'll finally see Ramuh-Egi in 2021 at that rate... No chance we'll even see what I'm suggesting anyway, but a full revamp is completely off the table with all that in mind... Best bet for that kinda Summoner if Final Fantasy XVII Online... Though if XIV has taught me anything, it's that the developers will completely ignore what their previous MMO did right or wrong and just make all sorts of avoidable mistakes, like Diadem... Why we don't yet have FC Primal Summoning, along side some kind of Campaign style content, I'll never know... That sh*t would be so damn epic; Losing a battle to the Garleans in Gyr Abania and going to lose the checkpoint there as a result, only for a FC to rock on in and throws Ifrit at the enemy, completely changing the tide of battle? I've literally been parroting that line (more or less) for years now, and all we're going to get in Gyr Abania is freakin' FATEs... F*ck my life...

[Jhett_Magnum]

I respect all those who enjoy SMN as it is, but in all honesty they need to rename it Necromancer (NEC).

[Silverquick]

I don't get where half of you are coming from...

This is largely one of the most powerful and popular Jobs in the game... and here you are complaining? And a very fun job to play on top of that.

Summoner is JUST fine as is... mechanically it is one of the most powerful AoE DPS classes in the game. And I can point you to FFLogs to show any given time how much they are ruling the field in many areas.

The only thing you guys seem to have a problem with is visuals... and that's pretty superficial. I get that you want something cooler looking... but at least specify that.

Because the reality is... the Summoner is already good. In fact its top of the line. The way they designed it especially after Heavensward, made it a powerful and viable class, that is quite literally the best at what it does in terms of AoE damage.

So reworking the base mechanics of it are more likely to cheese off the Summoner crew as a whole... and potentially break it... when it was working just fine prior.

And... more importantly. How many of you here actually played this thing to the uppermost levels?

I know that at around level 50 it was a little weaker. But by level 60 its ruling the field.

[Belhi]

I respect all those who enjoy SMN as it is, but in all honesty they need to rename it Necromancer (NEC).

It doesn't raise any undead. Frankly a Necromancer who raises only a single undead is a pretty underwhelming Necromancer too.

[azura84]

I don't get where half of you are coming from...

The issue is that this game has become all about balance, and the point we're making about it being just new animations/egi's is that, similarly to any other dps job, you have little difference between each of their max dps so if everyone is doing 50 50 50 50 50, then what's the difference in just feeding the beast (smn playerbase) some more egi's and animations that do the same thing. I know this isn't exactly true, many jobs have alternate uses and circumstances best used for but mostly the game is extremely balanced and the point is if they make everyone the same strength what's the big problem with making more egi's similarly.

I would be happy sacrificing new gear for SMN if they gave us more summons.

[Ririta]

It doesn't raise any undead.

We raise a lot actually


Seriously, though, I'm somewhat glad that we still don't have glamour. Maybe a miracle happens and we get actual new summons (and Contagion is removed from the game, fuck you Garuda).

[Silverquick]

The issue is that this game has become all about balance, and the point we're making about it being just new animations/egi's is that, similarly to any other dps job, you have little difference between each of their max dps so if everyone is doing 50 50 50 50 50, then what's the difference in just feeding the beast (smn playerbase

I would be happy sacrificing new gear for SMN if they gave us more summons.

I wouldn't... I only make use of Titan and Garuda at this point anyway.

I'm already running a rotation that looks like this...

Single Target:
Quick Cast + Shadowflare>Bio 2>Miasma>Bio>(Garuda) Contagion>Fester>Ruin 3>Ruin 3>Fester>Rouse + Spur + Enkindle (Aerial Blast)>Ruin 3>Fester>Dreadwyrm Trance>Ruin 3 (x4)>Tri-Disaster>Deathflare (aka TeraFlare).

Thats not even including Raise during Raids, or Double tapping a Ruin 3 + Ruin 2 for a Dual cast quick 280 potency Burst.

Or on Multiple Targets.
Quick Cast + Shadowflare>Tri-Disaster>Garuda (Contagion)>Painflare>Bane>Rouse + Spur + Enkindle (Aerial Blast)>Painflare>Dreadwyrm Trance>Bliz 2 (x3)>Deathflare (aka TeraFlare).

I don't NEED another pet... I've already got a ton of abilities... and ALL of them get used. Well Admittedly I don't get much use out of Ifrit these days... only Titan and Garuda.

Its why I keep wondering if you guys have played this class or not to any respectable level.

Do you have any idea how many abilities this job ALREADY has? I already run 3 Bars worth of abilities on any given dungeon or raid... and I use ALL of them... NONE of my powers or abilities as a Summoner are not used with the exception of Tri-Bind and Virus... and Virus is actually useful... its just irrelevent at my level... (and so is Physic because is too low powered)

[azura84]

snip..

First of all, I can respect a good rotation and player taking the time to delve into the details, you're not alone in this. What "I" am proposing is simply giving us more summons and then grouping their 5 main abilities under a single action button, like have all the summons 1st abilities (Wind Blade, Rock Blaster, Crimson Cyclone) fit under a single action button since you can only have 1 out at a time, each of those buttons having the list of actions they perform in their description, thus reducing the number of hotbars required (except if you like having a CD list on your screen) and also giving us more summons. You're looking at this from a statistical perspective and we're looking at this from a more lore based perspective, since traditionally more and more summons are made as you progress with summoners in final fantasy games (all of them). We have just 3 and all are little unintimidating baby egi's, it's just kinda like a fart in the wind compared to what summons have always been, big and imposing.

[Silverquick]

First of all, I can respect a good rotation and player taking the time to delve into the details, you're not alone in this. What "I" am proposing is simply giving us more summons and then grouping their 5 main abilities under a single action button. You're looking at this from a statistical perspective and we're looking at this from a more lore based perspective, since traditionally more and more summons are made as you progress with summoners in final fantasy games (all of them). We have just 3 and all are little unintimidating baby egi's, it's just kinda like a fart in the wind compared to what summons have always been, big and imposing.

BUT... do they get used.... or are they just for coolness purposes...

Grouping the abilities is cool and all but its not going to change anything in the end.

The reason Ifrit doesn't get used anymore has nothing to do with how good he actually is. His Inferno attack is actually slightly better than Garuda's Aerial Blast when you use Enkindle... and its got a DoT tacked on... but Garuda has Contagion too, which is critical to extending your DoTs, and its more valuable in the end than either Ifrits Fireshield or his Inferno.

So... Garuda is the one that gets used, plus its a distance attacker that you can shift targets to instantly rather than Ifrit having to move all the way over to attack something.

How exactly is this going to change if you add another Summon? Even if you did group the abilities like you are talking about... it doesn't change the base reality that only one of them gets used anyway.

[Shurrikhan]

At that point your class growth looks half-assed, though. It's like building a house out of wood and then changing your mind half way and building the rest out of fiberglass. Not only would it look wrong, but it would also have structural issues. And as seen with this current situation, you get complaints on both sides.

The same lack of understanding of cohesiveness is why all leveling BRDs hit that point where they get blindsided by Wanderer's Minuet the moment they hit lv52, instead of making the design a complete experience to new players picking up the job while the old players reminisce about how it used to be.

Agreed. Sometimes I feel like I'd rather have half the potential class, with it feeling complete, than to have a class that tries to poor effect to blend two distinct aspects. If it looks as one, then fine, but SMN, like BRD at the 52 mark, is far from it. And whereas BRD merely leaves some parts untapped early on, SMN leaves half its systems outright clunky. I can't imagine that the best response to that, though, would be to attempt to softly phase that clunkier half out. If, all else having failed or otherwise impossible, it should be uprooted cleanly.

Personally, I'd favor proven identity even over proven functionality thus far even then though; even if making something of the pet costs more in development time to turn a profit, I'd rather have it than trance. That's not to say even that it would need to have an actual individual unit of a pet, just that it has something, somehow to do with pets.

He just chose to not do it, and then complain that people are dissatisfied.

This. Yoshida wasn't forced into any sort of community-driven ultimatum. He just made no attempt to answer the complaints, and seems annoyed that they don't just naturally dissipate as quickly as he'd like.