Why are summoners so neglected?

[Assirra]

Honestly, I think the problem with SMN boils down to the fact that we are the main damage dealers and the summon itself is a tag along, which is not something that many people want in a Summoner.
In most other FF games, FFXI included; the GF/Aion/Primal is the power (DPS/Support) behind the ability to actually summon. In XIV we give the mobs a terrible flu and then we blow them up with Akh Morn while the Egi chips away and is otherwise forgettable other then a few minor cooldowns (simplified).

I wish SMN was more like the current demonlogy warlock for wow. Basically almost all of your damage either comes directly from your summons or is related to your summons (a spell that does %more of your current demon's hp for instance)

Honestly, it is time to cut smn and sch and give smn the remake they need or turn their DoT spells into others the moment you equip your smn crystal.

[Khaidal]

Personally, summoner is my favorite class. Sure, it doesn't play or feel like a summoner like Yuna from FFXIV, but it is still fun. It is really boring the first levels because you don't have important skills, but once you get over that curve it's amazing.

You should try it out~ There is no drawback to trying out new classes because you can always switch back.

Thank you for the response. I got confused because it seems like everyone who plays summoner hates it ha ha ha.

[Silkerin]

Thank you for the response. I got confused because it seems like everyone who plays summoner hates it ha ha ha.

its a love and hate relationship :P

[myahele]

I have my pets on obey and I like to manually control them, but my biggest issue is how unresponsive the pet commands can be. I have to use additional macros on my pet commands if I want them to use their abilities on time and even then it's still clunky. I'd rather they have the pet abilities off global cooldowns so that I can instantly use them. Excluding their auto attacks, they already have a cooldown for each ability.

[Blueyes]

its a love and hate relationship :P

Pretty much this. I actually really enjoy playing as Summoner, but that doesn't necessarily mean that, to me, it feels like a Summoner. There's still a lot to be desired on that front.

[Nalien]

I really wish they'd just change skill animations to be more Summonery... More so seeing Ninja with that frog (pre-emptive suggestion - summon jutsu glamours please, I don't want a frog, I want a snake or nekomata or something (why yes, I have been replaying Muramasa...)), it's actually a little insulting... I assume we saw a revamped Ruin III in the benchmark (can't see much point in a Ruin IV, makes more sense for Dreadwyrm Ruin III to change animation to be more Bahamuty), not sure why it had Hyperconductive Tetrabiblios' glow (or was that Draconomicon?) in the animation, but the same wings were in Scholars new skill animation... Really don't want more similarities between how the two Jobs look in combat...

Egi glamours are a nice idea, but they really don't make Summoner summon more... I'm just tossing out (hopefully) whatever Egi I want instead of Garuda-Egi... A major revamp that has the summons as part of the jobs rotation would be ideal, but all I really want at this point is for various animations to update upon becoming Summoner/beating Primals... I don't need every Egi, I'll be happy with the main six, assuming they're all completely interchangeable with correct animations (none of this Carbuncle having Aerial Blast nonsense please), it'll be a nice extra layer of glamour for Summoner, if nothing else... What'd really fix the Job for me though, is something like;

Changing Shadow Flare, so that it is effectively Odin-Egi. He pops out, throws a Gungnir, and that's Shadow Flare now.
Changing Eye for an Eye to effectively be Ravana-Egi, based on the Seeing Wing/etc. ability he has it makes sense to me.
Changing Resurrection to effectively be Phoenix-Egi, because duh... (please don't sweep Resurrection into the new role skills thing... Summoner (and Paladin, to a lesser degree) having that utility is great IMO, and the best way you're going to give Red Mage any real form of white magic...)

Apply that kind of design to the Job and it's got its character back IMO... New Egi don't have to be permanent pets, in fact I'd rather they not be since I'm only ever using one anyway... I'd like to use Shiva-Egi instead of Garuda-Egi, but I'd much rather the skills I'm actually using regularly have more of Summoner spin on them, rather than just straight up copies of what Scholar is using... Granted, if anything Scholar is hijacking Summoners skills, but the whole disease theme kinda works for a healer...

Honestly though, I don't think Summoner is neglected... If anything it gets more love than any other Job, since Egi-Glamours are extra work... If anything, SE just doesn't know what it's doing with half the Jobs... Bard is a Ranger with three Songs you'll never use (oh look, another attack skill, instead of building some utility around the Songs). Astrologian straight up clones Adloquium when that really doesn't sync well with something like Time Dilation (Phalanx or healing version of Wildfire please, and copy Enlightenment from Scholar (XI version) instead). Ninja is a hot mess of half baked concepts since they decided to throw Thief under the bus, but at least it feels right. Adding a new ranged Job? Just copy Bard, not sure why they didn't at least copy Ninjas worthless stance mechanic for Machinist... Honestly, they're all over the place...

That AF3 though... Almost feels like they hold a grudge for all the complaining...

[Tarta]

Summoners needed to be reworked from their initial idea.
That's fine.
However, we players see these changes gradually, as it needs to feel organic.
We have been seeing many new ways of summoning now, such as Isayle summoning Shiva from herself - thereby becoming a version of Shiva.
That type of summoning has started with our Summoner Players - Bahamut and the Dreadwyrm trance.
However, I feel it should or should go a step beyond it once player would reach 70 - Removing Pets.
Stop Pet power-scale at 60.
Don't be scared.
Now hear me out, both players and Devs - this is an in-game - facilitating method streamlining summoning and summoner to allow player to have and easier time with the Job, and allow Devs an easier time with balance/models.
A new core mechanic for the class that would radically change SMN - Trance - in effect a stance for summoners. Lore-wise - SMN, since learning the Dreadwyrm trance, now learn a new trance, more generalized for different aspected Aether/primals.
What does it do? Similar to Dissipation burning up the Faerie for an effect, Trance is popped (no cooldown, I'll explain) has summoned Egis burned up (helping fuel the Trance to summon within one's self, such as Isayle/Shiva). Doing so would give the SMN Aether-specific aspected Ruins in a 1-2-3 combo.
Ruin 1 Single-Target, Ruin 2 Multi-target conal AoE (still no cast time, but increase dmg if combo), Ruin 3 ST (same but increase dmg on combo, with lower DWT-like MP cost)
So on AoE fights, spamming blizz II would not longer beat the benefit of Ruin 1 -> Ruin 2 -> Ruin 1 -> Ruin 2 combos).
Remember this is Aspected (Red fire if you had Ifrit, Green Air for Garuda, Yellow earth for Titan...), no need to make the abilities look different, just reuse particle effects already existing in game.

So far, easy. Much too easy. It is simple yes? You are summoning. You have unique flavor. You are balanced. You still excel at AoE, but can hold up on ST with Aspected Ruin 3 combo'ed (still more DPS during DWT to spam Ruin 3 non-comboed)

This would be boring you would say. I agree. This is where you can make old abilities SHINE with SMN. Glory to Enkindle, which now work on you! (Since you are the SMN, with the PET - 2 in 1).
Enkindle - 1 minute CD. Does the Ultimate ability the original burned up Egi had. Adds cooldown on the Egi summon in question. Ends the Trance stance. Reduces other Egi cast timers to 0 seconds.
See where I'm getting at? SMN gets to rotate their pets/Summons.

A 70 SMN, optimizing his play, would summon a pet, sac it with Trance, and for a minute (part of it integrating DWT Ruin 3 spam) would be a Ifrit-Trance SMN, keeping dots up, until Enkindle. Boom.
Summon Garuda, Trance it - becoming a Garuda Trance SMN for a minute (part of it integrating DWT Ruin 3 spam), keeping dots up, until Enkindle. Boom.
Summon Titan, Trance it - becoming a Titan Trance SMN for a minute (part of it integrating DWT Ruin 2 spam), keeping dots up, until Enkindle. Boom.
Summon Ifrit...etc. Rinse/repeat.

The new 70 SMN would thus summon.
It would be easy to add Shiva/Ramuh/Levi abilities - all you gotta work is the Enkindle action.
Optimized play would work on the 3 best Enkindle abilities for ST dps, if you add other Enkindles.


Explain it within 1 minute thing for Yoshi-P/TLR: Summoner summons Primal aether within themselves, using the old Egi pets as Aether crystal replacements. Not a true summoning, the player retains their appearance - this saves time and work as no new 3D models added. Adds aether-aspected bonus damage to their Ruin abilities, in simple 1-2-3 combos, and a reworked Enkindle adds further flavor to the Job, by incentivizing rotating between the different Aether aspects, however retains the simplicity of the 1-2-3 combos.

Anyways, I feel they have a lot of room to work on the Job, easily, smart, and make it flavorful and balanced. Currently, SE is just trying to fix a leaky ship for the SMN job, and should just make a new boat. (Hopefully, when classes get wiped).

[MOthe]

Changing Shadow Flare, so that it is effectively Odin-Egi. He pops out, throws a Gungnir, and that's Shadow Flare now.
Changing Eye for an Eye to effectively be Ravana-Egi, based on the Seeing Wing/etc. ability he has it makes sense to me.
Changing Resurrection to effectively be Phoenix-Egi, because duh... (please don't sweep Resurrection into the new role skills thing... Summoner (and Paladin, to a lesser degree) having that utility is great IMO, and the best way you're going to give Red Mage any real form of white magic...)

Such Great idea/concept! ! !

Another one:
Tri Bind: Shiva Egi comes and freezes everyone in the area of effect
Miasma 2: casts on both Summoner and Egi (Garuda-Egi casts it from distance) or make it Leviathan-Egi spell, something like a disease tempest

[Natashio]

Such Great idea/concept! ! !

Another one:
Tri Bind: Shiva Egi comes and freezes everyone in the area of effect
Miasma 2: casts on both Summoner and Egi (Garuda-Egi casts it from distance) or make it Leviathan-Egi spell, something like a disease tempest

Thoughtful, but these statements made by Nalien are not new and it is what is to play Summoner in FFXI. Sorry to bring it up the bogeyman, but that's what he's describing. If you never played FFXI, Summmoner is just a bag of MP with no offensive or healing magic abilities other than to summon. All attacks and buffs were exclusive to the avatar activated by "blood pact". MP was just the fuel to be able to summon, maintain the avatar in the field, and to activate abilities. Now the only way a concept like this would work is if these abilities were instant cast with no summoning animation. Because I don't have to say that it would be a huge damage lose to be summoning multiple egi's during a fight.

[Silkerin]

Thoughtful, but these statements made by Nalien are not new and it is what is to play Summoner in FFXI. Sorry to bring it up the bogeyman, but that's what he's describing. If you never played FFXI, Summmoner was just a bag of MP with no offensive or healing magic abilities other than to summon. All attacks and buffs were exclusive to the avatar activated by "blood pact". MP was just the fuel to be able to summon, maintain the avatar in the field, and to activate abilities. Now the only way a concept like this would work is if these abilities were instant cast with no summoning animation. Because I don't have to say that it would be a huge damage lose to be summoning multiple egi's during a fight.

ok, but what he wanted to bring from that to here was just the animations... you know... replace the old spell animations and effects with new ones like was mentioned when a smn crystal is equiped... not add new spells just to have those effects...