Dam. meter

[Llan]

Again more hearsay. "The moment they hit WoW."

I was using a Parser in 2001 in EQ, years before WoW was released. You all again are spreading misinformation that it causes communities to go bad.

I reckon you're not going to blatantly deny the huge portion of people in WoW that harass over DPS numbers, right?
I'd say it might be hearsay up to some point but this is a problem that happened because of Parsers in WoW and it's kinda obvious...

Give an already mostly toxic community a tool to measure people based on DPS and they'll use it for evil, period.

Hey, I agree to disagree. I still will throw people out of groups if they don't do good enough, with a meter or not.

And that's absolutely fine. I mean just look at my signature. I have to deal with people like that all the time (Not insanely often but still, I know the pain). lol

[Shougun]

Give an already mostly toxic community a tool to measure people based on DPS and they'll use it for evil, period.

I think we're already at an respectable disagreement/agreement on things but out of curiosity, on the basis of this sentence do you think it is the parser's fault then? If it's not do you believe there is any conceivable variation of the outcome where, if you agree with me (people not tools are the problem), a parser could be introduced with nominal "new" negative impact? What would that world look like? If you can imagine one lol.

Like blaming the food people buy for changing them when they knew before they bought it that it was bad for them.

"I CANT BELIEVE THEY SELL THIS 2,000 CALORIES BURGER *nom nom nom* THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS *buys another* I WILL SUE THEM FOR THIS CLEAR VIOLATION OF MY RIGHTS TO BE HEALTHY *drinks 500L Soda that has a warning label on it*"

Of course I understand a key argument point some people have /against/ parser is that its not just a harm of self like my joke example above but more like smoking or something where doing it around others hurts others too lol. Hamburger example sounded better though, I'm hungry :3, and I don't agree with all the negatives listed with parsing but yeah wanted to be clear so the joke point is understood (self responsibility/lack of it is the problem and not the tool).

So I guess it follows, so long as people agree that it is the person and not the inanimate object that causes harm, that we address if the FFXIV community is toxic or not.. If its not, truthfully not, then parser should cause no nominal difference (in toxicity). If it does, it would be more like the tool pulled back the drapes of what was already there (and if its still a small section thats fairly easy for GMs to manage and should be for people to ignore, large sections obviously a larger issue).

Personally found neither WoW (again haven't played most recently so maybe it changed) nor FFXIV that toxic and the worse experience I've had in gaming was with FPS games and LoL (not MOBAs in general since HotS seems really mellow actually, like one insult every 12 games.. not bad lol). I would consider FPS anecdotal for sure, but.. uh.. LoL experience was so visceral and violent I can't believe it was just my experience lol. Watching people threaten others families, assaults of all nature, death threats, pure rage over any and all things XD (also haven't played LoL in a few years, so it could have improved).

Part of that experience might be that I feel I start at a decent place in most games and people who are quite new do actually get picked on where I normally wouldn't be (leading to a very limited negative experience with parsers, since in WoW I strived to be at the top of that list just because it was a fun challenge - or at least in new content never ever be at the bottom lol). But I do care about that new experience, part of why some of the people here including myself have also added a lot to other threads on helping newer people grasp the mechanics more consistently/easily and pick up what some people find intuitive due to their strong relationship with games (obviously people have far different suggestions on how to do that, but I recognize a few names here lol).

[Kyuuen]

-snip-

Yeah, but the difference between those two businesses is one will charge you more for a product. That fast food chain that sells the 2000 cal burger is probably going to be charging you more for it vs whatever their standard burger is (if they have one =P ). Whereas FF XIV isn't changing the price for what they're pushing.... unless they sell the parser on mogstation. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

Anyway that's neither here nor there.

The way I think they see it is that they can add it and one; if not a few, thing/s will happen. People eventually rise to the occasion and begin to change, which isn't likely. If that were the case, then WoW's player base would be largely knowledgeable regarding their class/specs.. and sadly that's not the case. Or the inverse of that, it's added and it becomes a weapon to bash people with which; sadly, IS the case in WoW. While parsers; in the right hands, can be a tool for good in show casing your jobs ins and outs as far as ability potential. It is far more often utilized as a tool to demean, which will only push more people away from content, which is exactly what XIV DOES NOT need.

[Kaethra]

Give an already mostly toxic community a tool to measure people based on DPS and they'll use it for evil, period.

Why stop at a parser? Why not disable chat too? Then disable names. Everyone is anonymous to one another?

I don't need restrictions to protect me from 'naughty' players. I can and have dealt with them myself. This community just needs to grow some gall and do the same. Stop being so damned sensitive and shy about everything.

[Llan]

Why stop at a parser? Why not disable chat too? Then disable names. Everyone is anonymous to one another?

I don't need restrictions to protect me from 'naughty' players. I can and have dealt with them myself. This community just needs to grow some gall and do the same. Stop being so damned sensitive and shy about everything.

Generalizing what I said doesn't make you right. lol
You can project all you want though. What I mean is: we already have asshats around, why give them a "low hanging fruit" as said before?

It's unnecessary. I think if we already have 3rd Party programs that people can use we don't need to force a system in-game.
it's like asking blizzard to add all add-ons as features in the game. If the add-ons are already working, why would you go out of your way to add something. You can use a parser already, go ahead and use it.

We had already made this point earlier in this very thread btw, a point made by multiple people in fact.

[Kaethra]

What I mean is: we already have asshats around, why give them a "low hanging fruit" as said before?

So you agree with giving them a chat platform to harass and bully? Why not take it away if they're so harmful?

If parsers are so evil in their hands and its just a set of numbers, then the chat where they can say any vulgarity they want likewise has to go. They can say racist, homophobic, and other disparaging things. Far worse than any set of numbers out of a parser. So why not silence it?

[Just-Communication]

So you agree with giving them a chat platform to harass and bully? Why not take it away if they're so harmful?

If parsers are so evil in their hands and its just a set of numbers, then the chat where they can say any vulgarity they want likewise has to go. They can say racist, homophobic, and other disparaging things. Far worse than any set of numbers out of a parser. So why not silence it?

I think the concern may stem from the fact that a parser presents an outcome by which one can carry out comparisons. Whether it is to compare with one's own actions or those of others. A parser serves no other purpose. By its nature the parser gives the user a reason to formulate an opinion on the performance of others, for better or worse.

Whereas a chat log is a function built into the game to facilitate communication between players or NPCs. While it can most definitely be used to judge others based on their words and opinions, that is not its inherent purpose and taking away the module because it has the potential to result in harassment would be detrimental to the game experience. That said, I believe chat is in fact disabled during PVP for that very reason.

Parsers have their place, but should not be built into the game.