Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[ShadowHunterrX]

I laugh at the PF clear party's. I joined plenty and most of them end in 2 wipes with a rage quite. It's always the guy that blames who leaves...but most of the time the blamer is the cause of the wipes.

Even with the option *cleared* there will always be leechers. A clear isnt a token that someone knows the fight. Personaly I have more kills with learning party's. Party's that created better players for those fights.

Clear or not. You just need to be lucky who you get in the party. There are plenty of leechers who cleared a fight and will never learn the fight. Those are in my eyes the worst.

[Sida]

When raid finder was put in the game there was no cross server PF. What it helped with was a chance to find a group in servers with smaller outside of static population. For content that wasn't yet in the DF. The options in the interface where attempting to offer similar restrictions that usually would be conversed about in PF group. However, as seen it wasn't a perfect tool for that. Now we have cross platform PF to fill the same need, for those without static to have larger pool of people to attempt to play with.

[Rongway]

if you aboilish the raid finder and add that indicator to the duty finder that says someone in your party hasn't cleared this. are you going to give people the option to withdraw from that duty without penalty if that indicator comes up.. maybe they joined to farm a couple of quick wins or are you going to basically hold them to ransom and force them to help you learn or eat a 30 minute penalty... (what happened to there time being as important as yours?)

What are you on about? There's no penalty for declining participation in a full party. You're not making any sense.

the raid finder does not exclude anyone from content.

That's exactly what it's for. It specifically lets you say, "I do not want to play with anyone unless they've cleared this already." And that has always been the only feature of it that actually worked. Practice Phase 1, Practice Phase 2, and Duty Completion were never enforced, and people entering for the first time could choose the Duty Completion option and waste everyone's time.

if practice parties take longer to fill than farm parties that doesn't mean the farmers should have to help you out.

I said zero about forcing farmers to help people. I said, and you even included this quote in your reply,

With this in place ... people who want to farm can form a full party via Party Finder, then easily see, before queuing, if all party members meet the expectation of having previously cleared. [emphasis added]

You don't need a raid interface whose sole feature is a previous clear check. You just need the game tell you if anyone who is in your pre-formed party hasn't cleared the content, before you queue, so we can skip the part where you're pissed off because you entered the raid/trial and immediately disbanded because somebody didn't respect the party finder comment.

[Reinha]

Splitting people between RF, PF and DF makes it harder for people to find a group. RF should go imo, and better functionalities added to DF and PF at the same time. Like the suggested ability to see the first timer bonus in the duty window before queuing. Or a tick-box which enforces previous completion like item levels are enforced. Or they could add a /bonus command for party leaders, which would echo back the names of those without a clear.

/bonus "The Howling Eye (Extreme)"
The following players have not yet cleared the duty:
Player One
Player Two

[Watachy]

It's a pain to carry people everyday on PF.

Please SE mind this request.

[Pintsized]

It isnt used to "discriminate" people who havent gotten the clear yet - it is used to ensure that people who know the fight

You don't seem to know the proper meaning of 'discriminate' because this is a perfect example of it.

[Sida]

You don't seem to know the proper meaning of 'discriminate' because this is a perfect example of it.

Discrimination comes into play in a situation where everyone applying should have an equal change for the task at hand based on their qualifications, but are not selected for a reason outside of said qualifications. An example of the discrimination would be when a female applicant with equal qualifications is not considered into a task where gender doesn't matter.

However, if a production is looking for an actor for a male role, it's not discrimination to not consider female applicants, it's simply common sense.

What I'm getting at, if the task at hand is to form a party of people who have already cleared the content for purpose of farming, it is not discrimination to exclude those who haven't yet done so, they simply are not meeting the qualifications to the task at hand.

[Dzian]

What are you on about? There's no penalty for declining participation in a full party. You're not making any sense..

Yes there is. if a duty dings, and you click withdraw you get a strike. 3 of them and your locked out of duty finder for 30 minutes...

So under your suggestion and the image you linked when the duty finder makes a party and dings it would tell you if someone in that party is new.. so what I said was would you then allow people to withdraw without penalty... or would you force them to either eat the 30 minutes or help a newbie clear it even if they specifically joined the duty finder to farm...

once again the raid finder does not exclude anyone from content. the only thing it does it stop you joining a farm party if you have not cleared the fight. it does not stop you in any way from joining or creating a learning party or a clear party so you can still do the content... you are not excluded..

just because you can't join a farm party does not mean you cannot do the content at all.... it's common sense really because if people who had never cleared content were excluded from it how the hell would anyone ever get in that content in the first place...

[Rongway]

A lack of understanding of how the game works.

A lack of understanding of the suggestion.

A self contradiction.

An irrelevant comment that has nothing to do with anything that I said.

Please read what I wrote and make sure you understand it before writing any more nonsensical replies. You're arguing with me over things I didn't say or you're arguing with yourself.



You're not penalized for declining duty participation if you're queued with a complete party. You're only penalized when you are matched with random people.

The image is of the duty finder window, not the queue window. The one that you have to look at before you queue. There would be opportunity for people to see it before confirming participation. Besides that, you're not penalized for declining duty participation if you're queued with a complete party. You're only penalized when you are matched with random people. If you're queued with a complete party, you're not penalized for declining duty participation.

You say the raid finder is not exclusionary, and then explain exactly how it's exclusionary.

The final statement is so absurd I don't even know where to begin. At no time did I say that new people should be able to join farm parties, nor that new people were suffering from not being able to join farm parties, nor that people making farm parties should have to accommodate new people. I very much did say that people who want to farm should get seven other farm-minded people together via party finder, and that a simple indicator should tell the party if everyone has cleared the content they're about to queue for. I also did say that the raid finder is unnecessary, because it is nothing more than a duty finder with an "I want to exclude new people" button. So just get rid of the raid finder and give people a simple indicator that tells you if everyone in your preformed party has cleared the content.

[bswpayton]

Im of two minds here and I think it really largely depends on the player at the end of the day. So thus far I hadnt done any hw extreme primals until the cross server party finder came out rf wasnt even working when this feature came into the game. So I was upset they wernt in the duty finder like the arr primals where when I first start doing them but, I listened to the people on the forums and I did make my own learning parties. So I cleared thordan, sep, and sophia, using the cross world party finder using learning parties it worked actually to get my clear. But heres where the problem is I did the same for zur and I can totally see why those whom want things back in raid finder want this.

You can get away with just average dps in these other fights in zur you will pretty much see way more mechanics if you are just learning the fight which could really discourage those whom want to help from helping. Ive tanked and healed and as a tank there is on reason that a tank should see demon claw in the first phase and in learning groups Id say Ive seen it every time almost thus making no progress. Ive even seen two soars in the first phase, with zur people are use to doing this fight a certain way seeing soar over and over again and getting no progress would really stagnate a farm party. So I get it now I see why its a wedge between the two ideas. I actually havent even gone into nidhog extreme yet but there are dps checks there to so could very well be the samething going on there but ill have to see. But despite me not liking it I totally understand the no bonus feature idea now, and despite me having cleared every other primal in hw before zur and nidhog I wont be joining any farm parties there is no in between learning and farm. And I grow tired of having to plaster my name all over my server over and over again this is the main thing I hate about cross server party finder and why I preferred duty finder. And will use it instead of cross server party finder, to go back to the old primals Ive already cleared.
So I say to those whom think its discrimination it is no doubt about it but at the same time its kinda needed in a way because it does slow down progress just from seeing how some fights really require u to be at the top of your game like zur. Id say do what I do and play for the clear and let that be enough forget about the rewards , and if you really want to just get past that content for the challenge and then do that and be done with it.

Because it really isnt fair if you cant do these fights perfect to join a pf that says farm on it. So yes its discrimination but its also just not easy to clear these fights because of the team effort you have to put in to do so thats why I really dont care for the hw primals to much focus on team mechanics where as the arr ones where much more based on individual effort and you could clear them without all eight players being on point. I hope that SE goes back to this method instead of these raid mechanic heavy fights like it is from sep on up to zur Im totally over it this creates a wedge much more than anything the fight itself.