Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Rongway]

if you aboilish the raid finder and add that indicator to the duty finder that says someone in your party hasn't cleared this. are you going to give people the option to withdraw from that duty without penalty if that indicator comes up.. maybe they joined to farm a couple of quick wins or are you going to basically hold them to ransom and force them to help you learn or eat a 30 minute penalty... (what happened to there time being as important as yours?)

What are you on about? There's no penalty for declining participation in a full party. You're not making any sense.

the raid finder does not exclude anyone from content.

That's exactly what it's for. It specifically lets you say, "I do not want to play with anyone unless they've cleared this already." And that has always been the only feature of it that actually worked. Practice Phase 1, Practice Phase 2, and Duty Completion were never enforced, and people entering for the first time could choose the Duty Completion option and waste everyone's time.

if practice parties take longer to fill than farm parties that doesn't mean the farmers should have to help you out.

I said zero about forcing farmers to help people. I said, and you even included this quote in your reply,

With this in place ... people who want to farm can form a full party via Party Finder, then easily see, before queuing, if all party members meet the expectation of having previously cleared. [emphasis added]

You don't need a raid interface whose sole feature is a previous clear check. You just need the game tell you if anyone who is in your pre-formed party hasn't cleared the content, before you queue, so we can skip the part where you're pissed off because you entered the raid/trial and immediately disbanded because somebody didn't respect the party finder comment.

[Dzian]

What are you on about? There's no penalty for declining participation in a full party. You're not making any sense..

Yes there is. if a duty dings, and you click withdraw you get a strike. 3 of them and your locked out of duty finder for 30 minutes...

So under your suggestion and the image you linked when the duty finder makes a party and dings it would tell you if someone in that party is new.. so what I said was would you then allow people to withdraw without penalty... or would you force them to either eat the 30 minutes or help a newbie clear it even if they specifically joined the duty finder to farm...

once again the raid finder does not exclude anyone from content. the only thing it does it stop you joining a farm party if you have not cleared the fight. it does not stop you in any way from joining or creating a learning party or a clear party so you can still do the content... you are not excluded..

just because you can't join a farm party does not mean you cannot do the content at all.... it's common sense really because if people who had never cleared content were excluded from it how the hell would anyone ever get in that content in the first place...

[Rongway]

A lack of understanding of how the game works.

A lack of understanding of the suggestion.

A self contradiction.

An irrelevant comment that has nothing to do with anything that I said.

Please read what I wrote and make sure you understand it before writing any more nonsensical replies. You're arguing with me over things I didn't say or you're arguing with yourself.



You're not penalized for declining duty participation if you're queued with a complete party. You're only penalized when you are matched with random people.

The image is of the duty finder window, not the queue window. The one that you have to look at before you queue. There would be opportunity for people to see it before confirming participation. Besides that, you're not penalized for declining duty participation if you're queued with a complete party. You're only penalized when you are matched with random people. If you're queued with a complete party, you're not penalized for declining duty participation.

You say the raid finder is not exclusionary, and then explain exactly how it's exclusionary.

The final statement is so absurd I don't even know where to begin. At no time did I say that new people should be able to join farm parties, nor that new people were suffering from not being able to join farm parties, nor that people making farm parties should have to accommodate new people. I very much did say that people who want to farm should get seven other farm-minded people together via party finder, and that a simple indicator should tell the party if everyone has cleared the content they're about to queue for. I also did say that the raid finder is unnecessary, because it is nothing more than a duty finder with an "I want to exclude new people" button. So just get rid of the raid finder and give people a simple indicator that tells you if everyone in your preformed party has cleared the content.