Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Watachy]

It's a pain to carry people everyday on PF.

Please SE mind this request.

[bswpayton]

Im of two minds here and I think it really largely depends on the player at the end of the day. So thus far I hadnt done any hw extreme primals until the cross server party finder came out rf wasnt even working when this feature came into the game. So I was upset they wernt in the duty finder like the arr primals where when I first start doing them but, I listened to the people on the forums and I did make my own learning parties. So I cleared thordan, sep, and sophia, using the cross world party finder using learning parties it worked actually to get my clear. But heres where the problem is I did the same for zur and I can totally see why those whom want things back in raid finder want this.

You can get away with just average dps in these other fights in zur you will pretty much see way more mechanics if you are just learning the fight which could really discourage those whom want to help from helping. Ive tanked and healed and as a tank there is on reason that a tank should see demon claw in the first phase and in learning groups Id say Ive seen it every time almost thus making no progress. Ive even seen two soars in the first phase, with zur people are use to doing this fight a certain way seeing soar over and over again and getting no progress would really stagnate a farm party. So I get it now I see why its a wedge between the two ideas. I actually havent even gone into nidhog extreme yet but there are dps checks there to so could very well be the samething going on there but ill have to see. But despite me not liking it I totally understand the no bonus feature idea now, and despite me having cleared every other primal in hw before zur and nidhog I wont be joining any farm parties there is no in between learning and farm. And I grow tired of having to plaster my name all over my server over and over again this is the main thing I hate about cross server party finder and why I preferred duty finder. And will use it instead of cross server party finder, to go back to the old primals Ive already cleared.
So I say to those whom think its discrimination it is no doubt about it but at the same time its kinda needed in a way because it does slow down progress just from seeing how some fights really require u to be at the top of your game like zur. Id say do what I do and play for the clear and let that be enough forget about the rewards , and if you really want to just get past that content for the challenge and then do that and be done with it.

Because it really isnt fair if you cant do these fights perfect to join a pf that says farm on it. So yes its discrimination but its also just not easy to clear these fights because of the team effort you have to put in to do so thats why I really dont care for the hw primals to much focus on team mechanics where as the arr ones where much more based on individual effort and you could clear them without all eight players being on point. I hope that SE goes back to this method instead of these raid mechanic heavy fights like it is from sep on up to zur Im totally over it this creates a wedge much more than anything the fight itself.

[aleph_null]

Actually if you want a "no discrimination" queue system where everyone gets queued together, didn't you have that in NA/EU data centers before RF was introduced? How well did those thordan and a4s DF queues work in 3.2?

[Dzian]

The image is of the duty finder window, not the queue window. The one that you have to look at before you queue. .

I think you're misunderstanding how the duty finder works.

if you've got 7 people already queud for a duty and none of them have bonus and the 8th person that does have bonus joins the queue where does you're notification pop up then??

or if you've got 17dps in the queue and 4 of them have bonusbut might not be front of the queue what happens then. maybe they weren't front of the queue but someone missed the ready check and now that bonus guy has taken the empty spot........ where does the newbie notification come up now?

i can see how it might work for full parties using the party finder. but when you look at individuals using the duty finder your suggestion just wouldnt work.

so you want to abolish the raid finder because you think its uneccessary but your idea would not work in the duty finder. party finder groups might find it useful i admit. but you're talking about abolishing the raid finder and using the duty finder instead but it wouldn't work as my examples above show.

unless you're going to give them first 7 people queuing the option to queue with cleared people only. in which case its no different to the raid finder at all.

your suggestipn seems to recreate the whole reason the raid finder was added in the first place

[Rongway]

Irrelevancies

What part of full premade party don't you understand?

[Dzian]

What part of full premade party don't you understand?

ok you don't understand the problem.

the raid finder was added because it was impossible for people to clear content in the duty finder thus no one used it. and those that did would queue for an hour for thordan get in wipe in 4 mins and disband and go back to the queue... it was much the same in arr if you tried to duty finder coil or extreme primals back then that is the reason they added the raid finder.

party finder and premades are completely irrelevant at this point... the raid finder exists to help indiviuals not premade parties find players that fit there skills and abilities....

whether that be helping individuals finding players thant can reliably farm content they've already cleared or helping individuals find players willing to learn content they haven't cleared....

so if you want to get rid of raid finder you need to put something else in it's place that offers that functionality to the player

[Sida]

ok you don't understand the problem.

the raid finder was added because it was impossible for people to clear content in the duty finder thus no one used it. and those that did would queue for an hour for thordan get in wipe in 4 mins and disband and go back to the queue... it was much the same in arr if you tried to duty finder coil or extreme primals back then that is the reason they added the raid finder.

That might be slightly mispresenting the point. While it is true that before RF all raids and ex primals were in the DF, it was not possible to queue into the latest raid or ex primals without full party. It was technical limitation, not just practical one. You were forced to gather one, either by having a static or, indeed, through PF. However both of these methods were limited within the server drastically cutting the pool of possible participants. Raid finder was an attempt to give change to break this server barrier for the content that was, rightfully, considered too hard to be released to totally random parties. Howevr while announcing "practise from start" or "after adds" or similar worked to a point in PF those different options in RF didn't achieve the same result, they only divided the pool of non completers into different queues that never got through. This the only usable part of the RF was the ultimate toggle for completion.

Cross server PF is the second take to the same situation. Does it force people to be a bit social to actually look for a farm party? Yes it does. But that's not different from the same limitations in place before RF.

[bswpayton]

I think you're misunderstanding how the duty finder works.

if you've got 7 people already queud for a duty and none of them have bonus and the 8th person that does have bonus joins the queue where does you're notification pop up then??

You seem to be pretty informed on the game and I would really like to know why the primals started going with these raid heavy mechanics instead of just more individual effort fights. Before sep there was nothing I recalled that required nearly as much coordination before it with the tethers and the towers or the blue puddle. And I would say sep is def not harder than say even ramuh extreme which yea had its dps checks but wasnt something you had to have voice chat for.

Same thing with all the stacking in Sophia and doing everything as one unit like these arent raids then why the hell are the mechanics like this it really pisses me off. You can still make content challening without putting so much on team work when most people will be doing this content with randoms because they dont have statics are friends to do things with. These hw primals had way to much grouping and way to many if one person screws up everyone's dead mechanics which thus feeds the no bonus community instead of having them based on what one does as an individual in the group.

[Talraen]

You seem to be pretty informed on the game and I would really like to know why the primals started going with these raid heavy mechanics instead of just more individual effort fights. Before sep there was nothing I recalled that required nearly as much coordination before it with the tethers and the towers or the blue puddle. And I would say sep is def not harder than say even ramuh extreme which yea had its dps checks but wasnt something you had to have voice chat for.

Same thing with all the stacking in Sophia and doing everything as one unit like these arent raids then why the hell are the mechanics like this it really pisses me off. You can still make content challening without putting so much on team work when most people will be doing this content with randoms because they dont have statics are friends to do things with. These hw primals had way to much grouping and way to many if one person screws up everyone's dead mechanics which thus feeds the no bonus community instead of having them based on what one does as an individual in the group.

Ramuh Extreme required a lot of coordination to make sure terror was consistently cleansed. It didn't require voice chat, but it certainly helped. And the same is true for Sophia: everyone can learn the mechanics, at which point voice chat isn't really necessary. I haven't done Sephirot or Zurvan extreme, but the other HW extremes seemed pretty much on par with ARR's mechanical complexity to me.

[bswpayton]

Ramuh Extreme required a lot of coordination to make sure terror was consistently cleansed. It didn't require voice chat, but it certainly helped. And the

I do not recall such a stacking mechanic in arr anywhere, and you may not need a voice chat for sophia but it is punishing if the stacking mechanics arent done properly. In sep if one person screws up tethers its pretty much a reset, in zurvan if one person screws up soar or two then its a done deal. I dont see this anywhere in the other primals , there are things you have to do in shiva extreme like spreading etc but three people could die and you can still recover. Leviathan there is no such group activity at all, not even in titan extreme its all on individual effort, but when you put in mechanics where one person can ruin the whole run you will get many parties with the no bonus or dont join us mentality.