Why are summoners so neglected?

[Stitches1974]

Rydia was a BLM,

Rydia was a summoner that could only use black magic. She was NOT a BLM.

"Rydia, sometimes referred to as Rydia of Mist, is a playable character in Final Fantasy IV and its sequel, Final Fantasy IV: The After Years. She is a Summoner from the village of Mist, and is one of the most prominent characters in the game.

[LunaFaye]

They want you to play Red Mage, and since Yoshi itself plays a BLM that Job will always see more love than the actual summoning or magic Job aka SMN. I don't mind it, I never played SMN for the eggi's, in fact sometimes I wish I wouldn't have to summon them and could just use my skills only and archive the same amount of DPS. But anyways, again RDM comes out, they want you to play that, he probably does more dmg than the BLM at the end as well as having the same mobility than the current SMN and that will then balance everything out Please look forward to it.

[Ama_Hamada]

gf posting:

it wasn't till abyssea that smn actually summoned. Before you was told to /whm and heal. and even still avatar summons had too many cons and not enough pros

Me and my b/f like smn as is, everyone would just pick "the best" summon and makepeople use that 1. I recall playing smn with my b/f and a person calling me out for using ifrit when my g/f already used garuda. :/

pup, bst smn in ff11 was pet focused jobs and was called weak for it. pup had no abilities outside making the pet do things. bst had animals and smn had avatars.

each class was considered weak, useless, and unwanted till abyssea. smn wAs told to heal, and pup was lolpup. bst were never invited because of exp down things, and even after unless you had the crab pot pet was weak.

i think smn and sch was handled well in ff14. ya it isn't what people want, but at least it isn't "weak". please take off the rose tinted glasses and remember HOW ff11 jobs were played, not what the job entailed.

There is some confusion here and I will try clear it up.

First off, as a few others pointed out, SMN was used in endgame as a PURE summoning. The healing was too weak for endgame. I had to spam Cure Vs on select things to keep people alive and some cases you needed to be skilled at precasting heals or people will die. What you are talking about is midcore and common leveling stuff and that is completely different game. As the game got older and DPS got buffed, endgame moved from SMN and BLM to 3 brd rotation and zerging.

As said the reason for the /whm and healing for most of the common stuff was from low DPS and high downtime it couldn't do anything else, same reason why a healer should be DPSing here.

Pup was weak not because of it being a pet job. It was called weak because it was a trash job on release and that stigma followed it even after countless buffs that would make it arguably OP after a point. The stigma followed and it was made worse when it was common that a lot of people could not make it effective.

Also for now I am going to assume you mean late abyssea after the 3rd was released and it was more common to see people have all those different zone buffs. The insane refresh made it possible to do that while people just wanted 18 bodies to be there. They did not care what job people where on, be like FFXIV's version of deep, they just wanted spots filled. abyssea was more of an indirect change to how SMN got to play in leveling parties, no change to the job itself effected that.

My words has no rose tinted glasses. The reasons for job balance issues in FXI is not the same for FFXIV. It is easier do things here, like the DF. If you are a dps, outside salvage, you can help pass it in a reasonable time as long as you keep pressing buttons, you do not have the same complexity of job balance here as you did in FFXI.

For FFXIV, SCH and SMN being tied together has balance issues that Se can't work around just because they tied them together, they need to be split apart. The only reason bringing up FFXI was to show, hey we got real summoning there, why not here? We do not have titen, we have a chicken mcnugget that can't stay alive or hold hate for anything worthwhile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHTCwDXVeWY
I am by no means trying to suggest SMN in FFXI was good, it had problems, it is obvious it did. No FFXI SMN liked being a gimp healer, but you had to do that to be some use to FFXI leveling parties. However, SMN in FFXI was in more inline with what a summoner should be then what this game does, and that is actually having most of your damage come from the summons, not dots, and having summons that look like summons, not jalapeno peppers, and chickens.

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Doubt we'll see a proper smn till blizzard makes , and seriously yoshi complaining about summoners wanting summons... man letting Tanaka go... I'll stop there.

[Ralts]

Doubt we'll see a proper smn till blizzard makes , and seriously yoshi complaining about summoners wanting summons... man letting Tanaka go... I'll stop there.

Summons are what makes FF game a FF game :/

[Inosaska]

We already have a melee, a range and a tank. Garuda's specialty is extending dots

With what I bolded is the exact problem with the pets. They should all be damage pets end of story less issue making balance changes to the pets and remove contagion off Garuda would be a good starting point. Many issues can be solved by changing things on the job. Look at WoW it has made many changes to the classes over the years and the combat system. I don't understand what is so hard about doing it here. Yes it costs resources but that can be fixed by having the changes done at expansion time where there will be a big flow influx of cash. I can't imagine what they're going to do when Beastmaster comes to the table as a new job to be released.

[Settiesama]

Summons are what makes FF game a FF game :/

FF1 and FF2 aren't real FF games? :x

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Doubt we'll see a proper smn till blizzard makes , and seriously yoshi complaining about summoners wanting summons... man letting Tanaka go... I'll stop there.

To be fair, Tanaka wasn't going to have jobs in the game to begin with. You wouldn't have gotten a smn with him at the head.

[NolLacnala]

Idk what is going on at SE hq...

Oh, that's easy, I can answer that

[Jerbob]

Putting in support for a SMN with actual pet mechanics.

I'm really frustrated to see the same negative arguments being made over and over that aren't actually relevant. Stuff like how great SMN currently is for damage, etc etc. The issue is a design one, not a potency one!

Also lots of negative stuff about XI's SMN that's unbelievably out of date. WotG is ten years old!