Why are summoners so neglected?

[Shougun]

SE, after much development time, has worked in a solution for "I don't like how Egis look!", but look at how long that took. Egi glamours are a drop in the bucket compared to an overhaul of SMN's very functionality. I'm not gonna hold my breath.

I wouldn't even call it solved yet though - just opening up a path to being solved, I mean carbuncle is actually pretty damn cute but the Egi people complain about are still ugly so its like "you don't like 80% of your Egi? Here have one cute one, and we're never adding new ones again!!!".

However less exaggerated lol iirc they did say they were going to add more in the future so, could be solved then - I'd just say it is not yet so. Like WoW/some other pet summoning classes have upgraded visual options. I'd rather not make every summon carbuncle and call it "fixed" as much as I'd like to just actually summon a sexy Garuda or a.. no who am I kidding I just want a sexy garuda. Jk.. but hey in WoW succubus was top pet for the longest time and while they weren't bad their over use I imagine was in part due to their look (a lot of succubus when sometimes it should have been a Felhunter).

[NaesakiAshwell]

small fraction

I wouldn't call a constant 110 or 135 attack from Garuda / Ifrit respectively to be considered a "small fraction." Then combing the two buffs, they do hit for quite a fair chunk, and then of course using enkindle in conjunction.

I mean SMN can't always be in burst mode with Dreadwyrm, and you ideally don't overwork the cast of Ruin III outside of the trance unless you are properly weaving in aetherflow and energy drains you can't just sustain it endlessly for "max deeps". So you do have periods of regular ruin spam. Though I do tend to keep a reserve of mp specifically for battle resurrections.

[Ralts]

Welp, may as well throw my two cents in and add onto the "no egis" bandwagon....

Personally, I don\\'t think summoners should have pets at all. Do away with them. Instead, have summoners utilize a REALLY basic damage kit while revolving around a stance system that would alter the effects of their spells. Think of it like something similar to Dreadwyrm Trance, but alternating between multiple primals (Bahamut could be one of them) and end with Summon, where the summoner briefly calls a full version of the primal for their signature attack before they depart, causing the stance to fall off. Certain primal stances would have certain effects (i.e. "Ember Trance" (Ifrit stance) could give dot effects to their spells, "Aerial Trance" (Garuda stance) would make spells hit multiple targets, etc.), and the goal would be to alternate between a variety of primal stances for particular .

Yeah, this is also a neat solution

[Evumeimei]

What would be the point of new pets? The majority of them would be strictly situational or unused. You will probably be using the same 2 Egi's for raiding and dungeons unless you are willingly allowing your self to lose dps for eye candy.

This is what would happen. Would still only be one or two considered the "best."

Also, I've seen a lot of people mention remove egis and have summons appear while you are casting a spell, but that just makes me think of BLM with different animations.

Welp, may as well throw my two cents in and add onto the "no egis" bandwagon....

Personally, I don't think summoners should have pets at all. Do away with them. Instead, have summoners utilize a REALLY basic damage kit while revolving around a stance system that would alter the effects of their spells. Think of it like something similar to Dreadwyrm Trance, but alternating between multiple primals (Bahamut could be one of them) and end with Summon, where the summoner briefly calls a full version of the primal for their signature attack before they depart, causing the stance to fall off. Certain primal stances would have certain effects (i.e. "Ember Trance" (Ifrit stance) could give dot effects to their spells, "Aerial Trance" (Garuda stance) would make spells hit multiple targets, etc.), and the goal would be to alternate between a variety of primal stances for particular circumstances.

This sounds interesting.

[loreleidiangelo]

This is what would happen. Would still only be one or two considered the "best."

Also, I've seen a lot of people mention remove egis and have summons appear while you are casting a spell, but that just makes me think of BLM with different animations.

Why would it be "BLM with different animations" if the DoT concept is kept the same, just that the DoTs are applied via actual summoning spells instead of random indistinguishable poison graphics? Or if SMN summons were treated as steps in a combo, similar to MNK/DRG combos but with the end goal being a big spell mimicking traditional summon ultimates from other FF games?

There are a lot of workable concepts, several of which have been posted in this thread. Approaching the only alternative as "BLM with eidolon graphics" is kinda narrow-minded, tbh.

[Shougun]

This is what would happen. Would still only be one or two considered the "best."

Also, I've seen a lot of people mention remove egis and have summons appear while you are casting a spell, but that just makes me think of BLM with different animations.

If summoning the Egi was more affordable, at least on interval, (assuming Duelle's Aethertrail idea), then given the knowledge of a raid and enemy target that may not be true. Fighting mages, bring your anti-mage out, fighting an AoE pack (aoe pet), fighting a single target (single pet), oh something hitting the fan? Bring out your CC pet.

Currently that'd be difficult because you'd be blowing your fast cast all over and a decent amount of mana, which is why there would need to be a mechanic change for sure, but to say you'd be stuck with two pets would only be true for either a job designed to be that way (SE's issue) or for casual players - because you could easily make switching pets up valuable (like omg 20% boost in DPS when you're using the right pet? that'd be huge to those who care to play optimally).

Tank pet might still be neglected but is very useful solo :P

[Ririta]

I hope sometime down the line we get beastmaster comes out. I mean if there copying a lot of wow jobs anyway. Then beast master might actually act like a hunter from wow and will get a proper pet job! ^^

Hunters were a true pet class... every pet had a use. Raptors could debuff the target's defense, serpents could lower their magic defense, cats could increase the party's agility, wolves could increase the party's critical hit, and so many more.

This is what I wanted for summoners, it wouldn't be even hard to implement (all it would take is use the level 40 cooldowns to fill the utility role), but alas, it's just another case of "they don't want to" rather than "they can't", and the community defends them so zero hope for change.

[Silverquick]

Why would they? Because currently, the pet is a mighty small fraction of the SMN's damage output. Probably the greatest contribution the Egi has to a SMN's DPS output is Contagion, and that could just as easily be a job ability rather than a pet ability. A SMN can work perfectly well without their pet being summoned, and in fact may not notice for quite a while if it has died. That's how little impact the Egi has on a SMN's job..

No what they COULD end up doing is changing it, and screwing up the mechanical functionality it has now and Gimp it into being exactly what I said... the old FFIX summoner where you just looked "cool" while getting your butt handed to you...

I don't want that...

This Summoner is viable and powerful... you change it... and break it... you just screwed up everything that was working... and working well I might add...

[Holkan]

The two things that bum me out about summoner are the fact that its not really a summon focused class its just kind of tacked on and your pet has so few abilities. I wish your pet was the main focus of the class rather then a side thing tacked on. I also wish the summons weren't so dinky and pathetic looking. They seem like they should be the level 10 version of summons and as you level they should get more epic looking and stronger possibly tied to which weapon you have. Summoner relic weapons are kind of limited since they are just a book, but imagine if they made the summons more epic looking as you get better books.

[Leigaon]

What kind of issues ? you mean regarding material config ? With PS3 drop they already warned us that we might need to upgrade our machines ^^"
We'd loose them yes but do we really need to have them with us all the time considering how they look like ^^"

I think with how flashy things get now you're adding in a bigger version of the flashiness already. This is where we have to think like one of the people working on the game, you have X amount of summoners casting a detailed version of Ifrit just to have it go away. What would you have players do to adjust?

Buy a better system? That alone will not be enough, so you have to make a gap, give people time or loose players even more so than now. PS4 will be the next limitation until they do away with that for Pro. It has to be a gradual thing.

To place something like that would be fun, but with the limitations around it. I don't think it could be implemented without draw backs in terms of productivity. In terms of play-style, I like the idea. I like being able to get Primal moves out there or gain access to different elemental abilities, I'd probably stay with Earth though. Earth spells have always been my favorite.

You can take the pets away, but you'd cause an uproar with the population that wants to keep them as a pet class. You may think "Once they see this they'll understand." and I'm sure that's what the team has said about things. I believe if you start a thread that says "Remove summoner pets" and replace them with your link video you'll get just as many people who will leave the game than you would that would come back to the class.

Remember, everything that we want to implement, even my crazy ideas, comes at a price. If you're unable to see the downside, whether big or small, from your decisions you're walking in the dark, and sooner or later you'll walk into a brick wall..or trip over a single one.

This is what the team has to deal with, balance. Not so much in terms of game mechanics, but also in terms of how the population will react. We got carbuncle glamours, SCH's are upset. It was minor but it is there..and now that they've given us an inch we will want a yard. Now that SCH's see their twin brother get something they will sit right down in the isle and scream. Then we will get other jobs, and it will continue.

I do agree we should have something more than Egi's, Carbuncle is a classic summon so that's why I will keep him out forever. I figured we'd get lesser primals to summon at least, but it is what we have and I really can't stand any other DPS at the moment.

To say this again, I don't think your idea is bad. It sure is better and more unique than what I could come up with and please remember it is much easier to criticize than it is to do better. Who knows maybe the devs will see this and implement something, and if so that is wonderful.