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  1. #1
    Player
    Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Jeral Kalrashan
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell View Post
    I really enjoy how Summoner is right now as well. So you aren't alone Naria.


    *waits for a certain person on these boards to rush in again to tell everyone how XI Summoner at endgame was no longer the healing battery.* >.> <.< if you have to reach end game to be the summoner you're meant to be then thats not good design. And I absolutely adore the XI Summoner but unless I was solo or at end game, I couldn't really be it.
    XI Summoner is currently not a healing battery at any point in the game, levelling up or otherwise. Someone at SE actually gives us gear with pet stats now!

    Nothing about XI's Summoner mechanically made it suited to healing. Nothing about it mechanically made it weak offensively. Bad balancing and a complete lack of equipment did that. No one is asking for bad balancing and a lack of gear to be imported into XIV.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    NaesakiAshwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    696
    Character
    Naesaki Ashwell
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    XI Summoner is currently not a healing battery at any point in the game, levelling up or otherwise. Someone at SE actually gives us gear with pet stats now!

    Nothing about XI's Summoner mechanically made it suited to healing. Nothing about it mechanically made it weak offensively. Bad balancing and a complete lack of equipment did that. No one is asking for bad balancing and a lack of gear to be imported into XIV.
    I did stop playing about half way after Aht Ughan and throughout my whole levelling process I was made to be the parties white mage, so if they changed them that much that makes me happy but even then the way the XI summoner works wouldn't translate as well as everyone is thinking it will into this without a serious overhaul and remake of the job itself which I don't think SE will ever do and I'm well beyond the point were I have accepted this fact. Which is why the fact the vocal minority is still being so loud about such a futile endeavour is so mind numbingly irritating.
    (0)
    Everyone needs an internet hug every now and then.


  3. #3
    Player
    Silverquick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    893
    Character
    Silverquick Fox
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    Nothing about it mechanically made it weak offensively. Bad balancing and a complete lack of equipment did that. No one is asking for bad balancing and a lack of gear to be imported into XIV.
    That is incorrect... what made it incredibly weak was the fact that JUST having your pet out drained your MP... and the damage was so low that it would suck you dry before it ever killed anything.

    The only one you could have out for any period of time was Corbunkle... and he was so weak the mobs just crushed him.

    And you had NO OTHER SPELLS other than what was on your Sub job... so the base class itself was sooo linked to the pets that it was gimped and useless to bother with. You could Sub WHM if you wanted to get a group... but that was about it.

    I remember it very clearly my friend... it was the mechanic itself that was the problem in the first place. If you COULD have summoned your pets and kept them out to fight for you it may have been different... bit it wasn't... so all you could do was sub whm and beg for groups if you wanted to play one because there was a shortage of healers in the game.. that relegated it to second rate white mage at best.

    That thing stunk on ice, and gear isn't going to fix the problem when the base mechanic itself was that broken.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Jeral Kalrashan
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverquick View Post
    If you COULD have summoned your pets and kept them out to fight for you it may have been different
    That's exactly what I was doing literally 25 minutes ago. Perpetuation cost is mitigated by gear. SMN has changed. Potencies have improved. The frequency with which you can use your pet abilities has been greatly increased.

    You keep telling me about your problems with SMN years ago, and I sympathise, I really do - because I was in that situation. But things have changed since then and XI's SMN doesn't have those problems anymore. Your pet is still 95% of your job, and it works fine because the people at SE who didn't understand the job they created now understand it... somewhat better.

    You keep telling me that things can't be fixed but I'm literally sitting here playing the fixed result!
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    NaesakiAshwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    696
    Character
    Naesaki Ashwell
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post

    You keep telling me that things can't be fixed but I'm literally sitting here playing the fixed result!
    You can't really ignore that the combat differences between the two games is like night and day. What works in XI won't work the same way here, the amount of work SE would need to put it into it and we all know what their response has been like when it doesn't involve new jobs, so do you honestly believe deep down that they would completely rebuild an already in-game established job from the ground up just to make you and a few select others happy?

    I can completely understand tweaks and minor/modest reworks, but the things some of you are asking just isn't going to happen based on SE's own response to it all and their track record in the past.

    Like tell me right now, do you honestly believe such a change a dramatic shift could happen from SE in XIV?
    (2)
    Everyone needs an internet hug every now and then.


  6. #6
    Player
    Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Jeral Kalrashan
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell View Post
    You can't really ignore that the combat differences between the two games is like night and day. What works in XI won't work the same way here, the amount of work SE would need to put it into it and we all know what their response has been like when it doesn't involve new jobs, so do you honestly believe deep down that they would completely rebuild an already in-game established job from the ground up just to make you and a few select others happy?

    I can completely understand tweaks and minor/modest reworks, but the things some of you are asking just isn't going to happen based on SE's own response to it all and their track record in the past.

    Like tell me right now, do you honestly believe such a change a dramatic shift could happen from SE in XIV?
    You're right, certainly - directly importing XI's SMN into XIV would be an unmitigated disaster. As you say, the combat differences are night and day. It's more of a conceptual comparison that I'm trying to make. If I'm not making that clear then that's entirely my fault.

    When people bring up a pet-focused SMN for XIV, there's always someone who turns to XI and says "Well, SMN in XI was terrible, and that was a pet-focused job, so all pet-focused jobs must be terrible". That's the kind of thinking I'm desperately trying to show as being false. SMN in XI isn't terrible any longer because the developers are actually supporting it now - the design of a pet-focused job is solid. I am probably going somewhat overboard in XI SMN's defence, but that's because I'm very attached to the job. Seeing people spread falsehoods about how awful it is makes me very frustrated, particularly when they're using these out of date references to argue against something I think could be really great.

    I'm sorry if I'm giving the impression that I want SE to remove the current XIV SMN and replace it with something more to my liking. I recognise and fully support everyone that enjoys XIV's SMN as it is - it's a good job that has a well-developed aesthetic and distinct battle style. I personally don't like some of the choices that they've made (eg. the books - I just can't tolerate them), but as jobs go it's perfectly fine. The only thing I object to is the Summoner label.

    IF (and I agree with you, it's a big "IF") SE decided to create a different kind of summoner, then I would be just as outraged as anyone else if they replaced the existing job that people clearly love. It'd have to be something new entirely. My personal preference is to take the existing XIV SMN and rebrand it as Arcanist from 1-60, but there are numerous other options.

    Ultimately I know what I'm asking for is very unlikely to happen, but I'm trying to be optimistic. These forums are intended to be a place for discussion, and I'm expressing what my views and desires are. I don't want to give up on something I think I'd really enjoy just because it's unlikely. Judging by what a lot of other people are saying about SMN, they seem to feel similarly.

    No it doesn't. When I have to cast contagion 5-6 times before it actually works. When I can't cast rouse etc...
    I'm actually talking about XI's SMN. Apologies for the confusion. I completely agree that XIV's SMN needs to be far more responsive.
    (8)
    Last edited by Jerbob; 03-25-2017 at 06:23 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Stitches1974's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    396
    Character
    Velt Starcaller
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    I'm actually talking about XI's SMN. Apologies for the confusion. I completely agree that XIV's SMN needs to be far more responsive.
    Gotcha. My apologies then, but yes, SMN pets in XIV need to be more responsive.
    (3)

  8. #8
    Player
    Kazrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,464
    Character
    Nonni Brilante
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Stitches1974 View Post
    Gotcha. My apologies then, but yes, SMN pets in XIV need to be more responsive.
    So that lack of responsiveness is because the AI setup for the egis places their auto-attack as top priority. Basically Garuda-egi makes you look like a loser for a few seconds because it HAS to get off that Wind Blade cast before it feels like doing whatever you told it to do since finishing that auto-cast is higher priority in its ability queue than any other direct command. Same case for SCH fairies, which put an Embrace cast at higher priority over any manually-input commands or move.

    Until direct pet commands can instantly cancel a pet's auto-cast, SCH and SMN pets will continue to suffer in terms of responsiveness. However, MCH turrets don't suffer this problem because they don't come with any actual attack commands.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Talraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    591
    Character
    Ryelle Galashin
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    When people bring up a pet-focused SMN for XIV, there's always someone who turns to XI and says "Well, SMN in XI was terrible, and that was a pet-focused job, so all pet-focused jobs must be terrible". That's the kind of thinking I'm desperately trying to show as being false.
    I don't think that's what people are saying. Every time these threads come up, people point to XI's summoner as an example of how summoner could work, and people point out that it really didn't work in XI, either. And frankly, it may still not. Current-day FFXI is in no way interested in balance below max level. I don't know if the modern summoner would actually work in the context of the game as an actual MMO, rather than the solo/trust leveling fest it is now.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    Stitches1974's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    396
    Character
    Velt Starcaller
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    Your pet is still 95% of your job, and it works fine because the people at SE who didn't understand the job they created now understand it... somewhat better.
    No it doesn't. When I have to cast contagion 5-6 times before it actually works. When I can't cast rouse etc..., because the pet is out of range. I should not have have to steady my pet to bring it close to me to cast rouse. If I cast rouse, the pet should immediately move in to range to cast the spell. Instead I have to mess around with the pets to get get them to do what I want them to and have to waste time on that, rather then being able to DPS the mob (s), boss, or whatever.
    (0)