Why are summoners so neglected?

[Silverquick]

One of the strongest Classes in the game... and you're bitching about it?

Seriously?

Man... thats how you lose credibility very quickly...

Walk away from this and don't look back..

[AnaviAnael]

It's funny, "pet job" won the 1.x player poll for most wanted job and this game still doesn't have it.

They should rename summoner to something else until they can make it proper. I don't mind the job, but it does not , by any means, fulfill the pet job role..

Or, instead of renaming it people can accept that this is FFXIV's version of SMN. Summoners have been many things throughout the FF series. Rydia was a BLM, Yuna/Garnet/Eiko were WHMs, in XI it was a pet focused job, in XIV it's dot mage. Instead of constantly asking for a complete rework of the job (a decision which may upset more people than it pleases), or a rename, why not ask for an actual pet focused job like beastmaster or puppetmaster?

[BigRed5392]

Because it is attached to ACN and SCH! Well part of the reason, but more indirectly because that issue runs into this:


They basically made SMN a real SMN in FFXI, here is just being lazy and can't come up with ways to get around the balancing issue from being attached to ACN and SCH.

Or, instead of renaming it people can accept that this is FFXIV's version of SMN. Summoners have been many things throughout the FF series. Rydia was a BLM, Yuna/Garnet/Eiko were WHMs, in XI it was a pet focused job, in XIV it's dot mage. Instead of constantly asking for a complete rework of the job (a decision which may upset more people than it pleases), or a rename, why not ask for an actual pet focused job like beastmaster or puppetmaster?

gf posting:

it wasn't till abyssea that smn actually summoned. Before you was told to /whm and heal. and even still avatar summons had too many cons and not enough pros

Me and my b/f like smn as is, everyone would just pick "the best" summon and make people use that 1. I recall playing smn with my b/f and a person calling me out for using ifrit when my g/f already used garuda. :/

pup, bst smn in ff11 was pet focused jobs and was called weak for it. pup had no abilities outside making the pet do things. bst had animals and smn had avatars.

each class was considered weak, useless, and unwanted till abyssea. smn wAs told to heal, and pup was lolpup. bst were never invited because of exp down things, and even after unless you had the crab pot pet was weak.

i think smn and sch was handled well in ff14. ya it isn't what people want, but at least it isn't "weak". please take off the rose tinted glasses and remember HOW ff11 jobs were played, not what the job entailed.

[Yamimarik]

/snip

Pretty sure the top DPS atm are MCHs and Mnks? I can't remember specifically, but it's out there. So I'm not sure where this comment is coming from >.>

gf posting:
it wasn't till abyssea that smn actually summoned. Before you was told to /whm and heal. and even still avatar summons had too many cons and not enough pros

Actually, SMN in endgame was always useful for Astral Flow, or Something like a one hit Garuda, Fenrir, or Diabolos. They only really healed in leveling/merit parties. Summoner in FFXI was always about that 2hr Astral Flow especially when Alexander and his "Perfect Defense" came out.

pup, bst smn in ff11 was pet focused jobs and was called weak for it. pup had no abilities outside making the pet do things. bst had animals and smn had avatars.

each class was considered weak, useless, and unwanted till abyssea. smn wAs told to heal, and pup was lolpup. bst were never invited because of exp down things, and even after unless you had the crab pot pet was weak.

i think smn and sch was handled well in ff14. ya it isn't what people want, but at least it isn't "weak". please take off the rose tinted glasses and remember HOW ff11 jobs were played, not what the job entailed.

Nice edits there, Um... did we play the same FFXI game? Summoner, Beastmaster, and Puppetmaster could ALL solo things most other jobs could not at the time. Just look up any good video about PUP soloing Proto-Ultimas, or SMN's practically soloing some of the Sky gods. Sure kiting was more of a thing there, but even BST was the supreme solo job minus RDM. Sure /BLU /DNC really saw things open up for other jobs as time went on, but they were all far from weak. So I'm not sure what rose tinted glasses you speak of...

Now of course BALANCE was a whole different issue, and yes. Balancing here is FAR better then it was in FFXI.

[Cabalabob]

gf posting:
it wasn't till abyssea that smn actually summoned. Before you was told to /whm and heal. and even still avatar summons had too many cons and not enough pros

Me and my b/f like smn as is, everyone would just pick "the best" summon and make people use that 1. I recall playing smn with my b/f and a person calling me out for using ifrit when my g/f already used garuda. :/

FFXI SMN under Tanaka was trash because he had no idea how to balance it and was too scared to even try, sound like any other director around here? But the changes made to SMN under Matsui has put SMN on the map and made it the SMN that other MMO's should want to be. Yes it has its flaws and balance issues still as every job in an MMO inevitably has, but it is a true summoner now and a competitive job.

[Ririta]

What are you talking about? DWT and deathflare are closer to the classic FF summoner than anything else, if you really want a "real" summoner you'd ask for more skills like deathflare, skills that borrow the power of primals, because that's exactly what most FF summoners did, invoke the entity for one single attack. What we have now with summons being out 24/7 is pretty far from a summoner.

Lala Yukihime had the right of it, we need more ogcd attacks that are based off primal abilities.

To wield the power of primals yourself, you move farther than "summoner" and closer to this guy:



Speaking of the guy above, it seems that Blizzard moved away from making him transform into demons and back into commanding demons.

Just to add, summoners have moved away from what you described since Final Fantasy X. X, XI, XII and XIII all have summons as companions rather than one-time nukes/support.

[BigRed5392]

Pretty sure the top DPS atm are MCHs and Mnks? I can't remember specifically, but it's out there. So I'm not sure where this comment is coming from >.>



Actually, SMN in endgame was always useful for Astral Flow, or Something like a one hit Garuda, Fenrir, or Diabolos. They only really healed in leveling/merit parties. Summoner in FFXI was always about that 2hr Astral Flow especially when Alexander and his "Perfect Defense" came out.

ya... still was told to heal though in most things.

[Silverquick]

Pretty sure the top DPS atm are MCHs and Mnks? I can't remember specifically, but it's out there. So I'm not sure where this comment is coming from >.>

What are you talking about...

SMN is the top for AoE and multiple opponents...

But either way the top slots are either SMN or MCH or even BRD... so stop this nonsense.

Actually, SMN in endgame was always useful for Astral Flow, or Something like a one hit Garuda, Fenrir, or Diabolos. They only really healed in leveling/merit parties. Summoner in FFXI was always about that 2hr Astral Flow especially when Alexander and his "Perfect Defense" came out.

I played that POS in FFXI... and no it wasn't it was little more than a half assed white mage.

It stunk on Ice... I hear that after they graded the content down to low challenge level it FINALLY was playable...and you want that?

Seriously?

Man I'll take the THIS version of the SMN... over that one.... any day of the week... at the very least its viable and powerful... I cannot say that about the FFXI Summoner who was little more than a gimped WHM.

That one blew chunks.

[BigRed5392]

FFXI SMN under Tanaka was trash because he had no idea how to balance it and was too scared to even try, sound like any other director around here? But the changes made to SMN under Matsui has put SMN on the map and made it the SMN that other MMO's should want to be.

when was this I quit before SOA was out? im talking 90% of ff11 from 2004 when i got into it, till 2012 when ff14 was released. (i hated abyssea)

[Magic-Mal]

Just remove all the skills from smn, give it summon, and rouse, and spur. enkindle
and 18 summons that only have an auto attack and the enkindle ability.

There, you have summoner.

Sarcasm^

Sarcasm aside, that would be a step in the right direction, a clean slate if you will.

Phew!* It's a good thing Yoshida doesn't listen to you then or else we'd have AFKmner!

In fact, Yoshida should be getting a pat on the back for his splendid job on SMN. Based off of the numbers and statistics.



See that 20%? That's SMN.



See that 55%? That's the amount of DPS-users in the game. Seems to me Yoshi made the right choice when he decided to make SMN a class you can play instead of watch. Because SMN is the most popular class in the game.

FFXIV has its own SMN. If Yoshi said "We're making it like <game>'s SMN" then yeah he would've messed up. But he didn't say that. So the SMN is made the right way.