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Thread: Dps As Healer

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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalithar View Post
    Because in other MMO's if you only want to heal you can, healing in a game like WoW or SWTOR there is enough incoming damage that you basically have to be constantly healing, watching HP bars, buffs, debuffs, dispelling, etc. Whereas in this game, there is much less pressure to be constantly healing, in some content if I'm playing say... a whm, I can throw a regen on a tank and he'll be fine without me needing to cast anything until the regen wears off.The way the fights are designed in this game, when I do heal I often find moments of downtime where I can just stand there waiting for someone to take damage and it's boring. It's not the same actions per minute, it's less, and for some of us that prefer a more active playstyle, it isn't very fun.

    Which brings me to the point about the whole dps action thing, leaving aside the fact that healer dps in cleric isn't terrible and that you can cast a regen and switch to cleric with no penalty to it's healing. For one, it's the only way to keep that more active playstyle that I myself am used to and for another, I've always been of the opinion that I should always be casting something whether it be a damage spell or a healing spell, standing there watching paint dry is just a waste of my time when I could be helping out my party more. Sure, I can JUST heal, but if I can keep everyone alive while actively making the fights go faster? I'm always going to choose what speeds it up the most.*

    When someone says "I'm tired of being a healbot," they're referring to the fact that they aren't just standing there doing nothing when no one is taking any damage. Back to other games, in a game like WoW or SWTOR back in the day when you overgeared content, your healer could just stand there doing nothing. I'd run dungeons with a healer buddy of mine and he would complain that I'm taking no damage and he has nothing to do because healers in OTHER games do such piss poor horrible damage it's not even worth it half the time. It got to the point where he'd ask me to unequip some of my gear just so I'd take some damage and he'd have something to do.

    Gear in that game reached the point where I didn't even need a healer, I'd go in with 2-3 dps friends of mine, pull 50-75% of the entire dungeon at once (not exaggerating, completely serious), use my cooldowns, and they'd aoe everything down and I would honestly not even need a single heal since my paladin could recover HP on it's own. It rendered healers completely worthless at that point! Now with the DPS setup in this game, if no one needs healing, you can make a larger contribution in a meaningful way.

    *I will concede the point that I don't dps in content that is brand new, I wait until I've taken some time to get used to it and the way the mechanics of it work.
    Sorry, maybe my point wasn't precise. What I'm specifically asking is, why do healers like to DPS in this game? Looking at answers on the forums, it generally seems to be "because I like being optimal and there's not enough healing required to max out my number of actions per minute" or something like that - they're usually answers that have nothing to do with actually liking DPS in particular, it's more liking efficiency. There's a few people who mention liking the spell effects of moves like Holy or Gravity in particular, but for the most part I'm trying to point out that it's possible for the game design to change where healers can still max out "actions per minute" but have most of those actions be healing moves, buffs, or dispels, rather than moves that deal damage. And then I would ask the healers that like to DPS, "would you still like healing if the game were balanced more in that direction?", and people like the one I quoted might say "no because I can't DPS anymore" and that's why I'm trying to understand what it is about that point that's appealing. If you really enjoy just straight-up doing damage, why not actually play a damage dealer? Their rotations are way more interesting an in-depth than a healer's 3-4 dot application and filler spam.

    In my experience, Jedi Sage in SWTOR could actually do some serious damage, no? I recall this earthquake move that was just pants-on-head with how strong it was, though it's been a while since I played so I might be mistaken. I could also tear up the meters in easier content in World of Warcraft by using my owl chicken affinity as a Resto Druid in dungeons and doing a Moonkin-esque DPS rotation, to say nothing of how Disc Priest is a class designed entirely AROUND the idea of doing healing through damage. Maybe older expansions of WoW had healers twiddling their thumbs because their damage was poop, but I don't think it's really the case in Legion, which is where the bulk of my WoW experience comes from (some WoD, but lolWoD). The difference is, there's just plenty to do healing-wise in content that you don't outgear, and more difficult content like heroic/mythic raids and M+.

    Idk, hopefully that clarifies my point a bit.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo View Post
    Sorry, maybe my point wasn't precise. What I'm specifically asking is, why do healers like to DPS in this game?
    There's a discussion about this on the healer forums, and here's my reply from that discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Taika View Post
    For me it's my love for supporting my party, doing what I can to support the party synergy and help everyone play more effectively. In dungeons, I love being the person who can make the runs go so much smoother, using my buffs on party members and debuffs on monsters, keeping everyone safe with heals while also making a big contribution to group DPS, being able to say "let me handle these mechanics/adds so the rest of you can focus on DPS"... It's simply that it makes healer such a useful and powerful addition to the team, playing the job fully makes the run so much smoother, not to mention the healer DPS lessens the amount of damage taken by everyone and increases everyone else's DPS capacity (since the fights are shorter).

    And for endgame content, I guess I love breaking my own records, trying to optimise my play more and more in a certain fight, and aiming for a higher ranking at FFlogs.
    The reason I love playing a healer in this game is the versatility: I will heal, buff and DPS, I'm always active and I'm extremely versatile in supporting my party with all these tools.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taika View Post
    There's a discussion about this on the healer forums, and here's my reply from that discussion:


    The reason I love playing a healer in this game is the versatility: I will heal, buff and DPS, I'm always active and I'm extremely versatile in supporting my party with all these tools.
    So my question still stands: if they upped healing requirements to focus more on that rather than popping a sustain on the tank for most content and DPSing a lot, would you still find the role enjoyable? Adire mentioned that they wouldn't because they are a DPS main at heart, which is valid, but what do you think?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo View Post
    So my question still stands: if they upped healing requirements to focus more on that rather than popping a sustain on the tank for most content and DPSing a lot, would you still find the role enjoyable? Adire mentioned that they wouldn't because they are a DPS main at heart, which is valid, but what do you think?
    It really depends on how it would work in practice. If healing was made more demanding, but there would be still be room for DPS for skillful players, then I believe I would still enjoy it as a challenge. Although it's really hard to balance it by simply adding to the damage, since that would mean gaining new gear would again just leave more room for DPS, just like now. The other option would be to make damage taken more random - both in amounts and target, which would mean playing a healer would mean standing by to see who takes damage and how much and then reacting to that, which I doubt I would find enjoyable. I personally enjoy hybrid jobs and strategic, pre-emptive play, which is exactly why I found healer jobs in XIV so enjoyable.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taika View Post
    It really depends on how it would work in practice. If healing was made more demanding, but there would be still be room for DPS for skillful players, then I believe I would still enjoy it as a challenge. Although it's really hard to balance it by simply adding to the damage, since that would mean gaining new gear would again just leave more room for DPS, just like now. The other option would be to make damage taken more random - both in amounts and target, which would mean playing a healer would mean standing by to see who takes damage and how much and then reacting to that, which I doubt I would find enjoyable. I personally enjoy hybrid jobs and strategic, pre-emptive play, which is exactly why I found healer jobs in XIV so enjoyable.
    Thanks for the perspective; I threw both you and Adire a Like. I prefer just healing, but appreciate different perspectives on how other people would be affected if the playstyle were changed. Heck, even if Yoshi came out and said he thought XIV's healer designs were super awesome and they wanted to start factoring in healer DPS when designing all tiers of content I wouldn't like it, but it's not like I'd be freaking out on the forums over it. I doubt I'd keep playing, but that's my prerogative as a consumer, and not necessarily a reflection of the quality of healer design as a whole.

    Well, I think people are blowing his entire statement out of proportion anyway. YoshiP not liking how something is designed doesn't translate to dictation on how everyone should play. He can work on adjusting it if he wants but it's not like everyone has to suddenly take Gravity or Broil off their bars just yet.
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