Dps As Healer

[QuarIm]

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

Brilliant. I must keep this in mind when I am tanking. Have my vote!

[bardaboo]

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

Yep that's how i tank. Spamming cure for no reason? Allow me to stand in stuff and not use cds. Ooooh i should raw intuition and turn around next time

[Nixxe]

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

You should be careful about that. I may not DPS right off the bat if I'm unsure how much damage the tank will take and if you start standing in AOE, I'm not going to DPS ever because I can't trust you not to die like a derp.

[Khemorex]

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

So instead of playing the game and focusing on you role , you decide to be as inconvenient as possible to your group!

Thats really great from you Im so proud of you , and all of the rest that thinks like that :P

Ur are really a great addition to the community :P

not :P

[bardaboo]

So instead of playing the game and focusing on you role , you decide to be as inconvenient as possible to your group!

Thats really great from you Im so proud of you , and all of the rest that thinks like that :P

Ur are really a great addition to the community :P

not :P

and standing around not dpsing because "its nurt meh jerb" is just as bad.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

WHM is easier to heal on since they don't have oGCD cards to weave, but they were never supposed to be the safer choice.

WHM was supposed to be the pure healer. The job that focuses on healing alone, and as a result would be better at it.
Yet this is kind of lost now that AST can heal as much as WHM and still use buffs as it's own unique thing.

AST can't be both. It can't have super strong buffs and strong heals. It is breaking healer balance and breaking the identity of WHM specifically. Nerfing their cards won't do anything because even smaller buffs is better than no buffs at all, WHM will be in the same spot it's in right now.

Yet giving WHM utility will only result in homogenization, where every healer has the same healing potential and the same utility. At that point I would just quit healing because it'll feel so boring being the same as the other healers with different animations.

Honestly the problem probably lies more in how poorly AST was designed. Instead of having its own unique way to heal, it just borrows off WHM and SCH kits and tries to make it their own. Then they added cards on top of that, which is the source of imbalance. AST is a WHM with cards, there's no denying it. I only hope SE has a plan on how to fix this.

For raiding most group compositions are SCH + AST or SCH + WHM. Do you notice which healer seems to more often have a spot? SCH. So legit question but why do you only think AST needs to be nerfed? You do savage raids right? So you should know what the usual group compositions are like; so I am confused why you think only AST needs nerfing.

Obviously Scholar needs some looking into. SE is apparently already addressing this. This though, so there's not much to say on it right now. We have no idea what they plan on doing with AST though, which is single handedly killing WHM. Now is the time to give feedback on what we think the job should aim for, not sit on our thumbs and blindly assume SE has it all figured out. If they did, AST wouldn't have been such a mess on release.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Why should one healer have a harder time healing than the others though?

Because that one healer offers more than the other that ONLY heals.
AST shouldn't be able to heal as much as WHM and offer utility. Likewise, WHM shouldn't offer utility while healing more than everyone else.
That balance needs to be in place, one healer shouldn't be able to do everything with no drawbacks like AST can currently.

These are just arbitrary numbers, but if AST and SCH's were able to do approximately 500 HPS and WHM was able to do 700 HPS and the content only required 450 HPS

This example from Ghishlain is exactly what I'm trying to convey.
With ASTs current buffing power, they should have lower healing potency, but not so low that they can't clear content. It should, however, be harder to heal than a WHM who specializes in only healing.
It'll also create an identity for both healers.

Also when Yoshi P was asked about healer balance and was told that AST has the same healing potency as WHM, he replied "for now". Lowering AST healing potency is quite possibly something being discussed at SE right now. It would be the better option than giving WHM utility like AST and destroying anything unique between them.

I understand AST came from hard times, and even the thought of nerfing them now probably sounds crazy, but it needs it. AST offers too much to the party right now.

It's worth a try, really. Their toolkit even reflects a playstyle that emphasizes needing more heals. Lower MP costs, higher MP restoration, spells that cut MP costs. This is all Implying that AST would need the extra MP because they should be healing more often.
If things stay the same, then we'd need to cut their MP restoration in half, raise their spell costs and lower their spell speed increase when in diurnal. Their toolkit is still based off a lower healing potency playstyle, but if you want their healing potency to stay the same as WHM, their tools need to reflect the bigger heals.

[Ran1880]

Dpsing as a healer is almost natural for me.I only tank and heal and I even enjoyed stance dancing on my warrior main,back then when the job was inferior to pld and a lot of ppl did not want a warrior in raids.It was also a lot harder stance dancing than healer imo.Cleared all the raid tiers up to gordias when my static disbanded and I took a break.I decided to give Astro a shot and switched to main heal when I came back just to test and challenge myself and I sticked to heal till today.I found healing easier the more in dept knowledge I have of tanking.

[Ran1880]

So for me these to roles are bonded together and I learn to adapt and analyze what both jobs are capable of,knowing tank cd rotation in every detail allows to micromanage and adapt own healer skills.Knowing your tanks abilities and calculating the order is pretty crucial to healer dps.A good tank knows how to play to give the heal time to blast out dps, a good symbiosis is fundamental for solo healing/tanking.Is dpsing fun? Yep.Would I be upset if SE removes the DPS meta?Nope. Dpsing alone does not give me the kick,that's why I will mever play dd.I rather stick to the core duty.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

My comment was ONLY about healing potency not the combination of healing potency and utility. No healer should have a harder time at their primary function.

You can never take just healing potency into consideration. You have to look at the entire kit when discussing balance.

These are the things I can agree with:
Nerf ASTs utility
Buff WHMs utility (could make it something unique to WHM I am sure SOMETHING can be created)

These are things I will not ever agree with:
Nerfing any healer's healing potency to be weaker than the other healers.

You'll NEVER change my mind so honestly no point in continuing which is why I stopped replying to you.

It's not like I don't get your point. All healers should be able to do their job, which is healing, equally. I get that. But when you add extra stuff on top of this requirement, you have to take into consideration what the other healer has to compete with the extra utility. Giving all healers the same potencies and same utility is going to lead to homogenization and make healers extremely boring to play, and I don't think anyone wants that.

Instead, giving them unique strengths that are different but still balanced would make all the healers feel fresh and give them all an identity.
Perhaps WHM can move away from a pure healer identity and go for something else. I remember someone talking about giving them spells that can lower damage from aoes, or spells that can reflect damage. Or even just giving them more spells like Assize, that works to deal damage AND heal/cleanse. Anything is better than just throwing them similar utility to AST and having them both play the same.

But, I think we have hit a wall in our opinions. All we can really do is wait and see what happens.
I only hope that SE doesn't opt to just make all the healers the same with different animations, it would eventually force me out of the healer role.